Ultralight Titanium Fuel Canister

[Adam Salinger]

As I continue the goal of being lighter and more efficient on the trail, I’ve moved into developing my own original Cold Soak recipes.  It’s gone well, and I’ve got a handful of solid meals in my quiver.  With that being said, I’ve also seen that my cook set-up is pretty darn light to the point that it’s sometime hard to justify not having hot meals.

With the advent of Flip-Fuel, and other devices that has made fuel transfer safe and efficient, I’ve started thinking about how to carry isobutane in lighter ways.  My gut says that there must be other ultralight ways to bring the weight of a small full 4-oz fuel canister down.  It appears that most canisters (Jetboil, MSR) weighed out…shows almost an even 50/50 split where the fuel itself weighs about 3.9oz and the canister weighs 3.5oz.

I believe that if a cottage company came out with maybe 3 sizes of titanium canisters that could be refilled each time they empty, there would be a HUGE demand.  And….if these cans could be refilled at hostels on major trails and gear outfitters, it feels like it again would be a win/win for hikers, retailers and the environment.

Thoughts?  Wisdom??

[bradmacmt]

3 Words: Liability – Liability – Liability

[Roger Caffin]

While I entirely agree with Brad, I must add a 4th word: COST.

This works in two ways.
Yes, such canisters could be made, but you would need guaranteed sales of at least 10,000 per size, before you could find any mfr able and willing to make them. Just look at the production of simple pots.
Then you would have to figure out how to persuade anyone to pay upwards of $20 – $40 per container. Or maybe double that.

There would also be the problem of getting the containers certified by the DoT for transport – unless you were planning on having every buyer do his own refills. The hazards of having thousands of novice users refilling their own canisters is a mental exercise of some horror.

I might be wrong of course.

Cheers

[Terran Terran]

They’d probably need thicker walls to be DOT approved, which would make them heavier.

[Roger Caffin]

Who knows.
What matters is the burst pressure. Ti is fairly strong.

Um – SIGG can explosion-mold those nice aluminium bottles MSR etc use for petrol stoves, but I doubt that would work with Ti. Interesting engineering problem.

Cheers

[Terran Terran]

Apples to oranges… Smith & Wesson claim they’re titanium alloy cylinders are 60% of the weight of their steel ones while capable of withstanding the same pressures.

Camping Moon makes a 110 gram refillable canister that they list at 1 pound.

Summarizing a titanium canister, taking the same pressures, using the 60% figure would be around 0.60 pounds.

A throwaway canister for 110g of gas weighs around 100 grams. Around 0.22 pounds.

Of course, that’s just a guess.

[Todd T]

Even if a company got through the liability belt line, I expect the Ti tanks would be, at best, slightly lighter.  I think anyone with a modest bit of common sense and a flip-fuel already has everything you’re asking for except for a few grams and a few environmental virtue points.

[Roger Caffin]

Smith & Wesson claim they’re titanium alloy cylinders
Huh?
Educate me. I thought S&W made guns.

Cheers

[Terran Terran]

I said apples to oranges. I was trying to find a ratio comparing titanium to steel for their ability to contain pressure. In that regards a gun cylinder is somewhat similar. At least enough for a guess.

[Bill in Roswell]

Compliance laws in North America and Europe would be a big hurdle. The wall thickness needed for Ti would make 2-2.5 oz. Just a guess but I did work in the Propane/Butane division of one of the Big 5 petroleum companies. Ideas that sound good on paper are often prohibitive in real world economics. The return on investment could take over a decade to realize. So yes, it’s a good idea if you find some one willing to part with millions of dollars to fund it.

In the mean time, Esbit/hexaminectablets are quite efficient and less fussy than alcohol. But also hard to find, especially in small towns near many a trailhead. Whereas alcohol for stoves can be had almost anywhere in the US and Canada in hardware and auto parts stores.

[Roger Caffin]

I have been (slightly) educated. You can buy Ti water bottles on Amazon!
Mind you, zero pressure rating and prices from US$80 to US$160 or thereabouts. The threads etc on the caps look as though they would pop at 10 psi.
Now try to stick a Lindal valve on one and get it pressure-tested (and approved).

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