Tentative clothing list for Canadian /Alaskan winter Critique and advice needed

[Edward John M]

Gear list Canada and Alaska winter 2020

Lightweight
FEET
Injinji toe socks Ski boot version
Nylon/polyester Alpine ski socks
Scarpa T2 Telemark boot with moulded liner
40 Below overboots
Madshus Eon 195 / Voile Traverse binding
Synthetic bivvy boots with pile liners / heavy woolen socks

HANDS
XTM Arctic liner gloves
Outdoor Research High Camp 3 finger gloves
Helly-Hansen Arctic mittens, modified for extreme cold
Uniqlo Heatech sleeping gloves
HEAD
Billabong UL helmet liner balaclava
Possum and merino beanie
Patagonia pile and PEF balaclava for extreme cold
Nike mesh running hat

REST OF BODY
LEGS
Polartec Powergrid loose Capri fit tights
Mesh lined running pants Nikwax treated
ALTERNATIVE Polartec ThermalPro capri-length pants with wind resistant integrated shell
Patagonia MARS insulated pants (85GSM Primaloft)
USMC surplus windpants
Surplus M-65 trouser liners
TORSO
Patagonia everyday UL crew neck
Patagonia R1 Ninja top
Patagonia Nano-Bivvy pullover
ALTERNATIVE
Patagonia Cap 2 T-shirt
Pontetorto stretch fleece short zip turtle neck
Montane Featherlite pullover windshirt
Patagonia Nano pullover
Patagonia Nano-bivvy pullover

Patagonia DAS belay parka OR Surplus L7 jacket OR Nunatak Skaha pullover
Surplus L7 over-parka for extreme cold

Much of this I already have except for the new down from Nunatak

[Edward John M]

No advice or comments?

I’ve not really changed much from what I would wear ski touring here in Australia; I just added a warmer leg layer and included an extra parka.

I guess I am not going to freeze to death then if I take something along these lines

[David Thomas]

None of the parkas has a good tunnel hood (although the L7 has some protection of your face).  Insulated goggles and a neoprene facemask is one approach, but I prefer a tunnel hood when it is below -20F.

My two bits of arctic advice:

However much clothing you need at 15F (= 55 degrees below 70F), you need twice as much (all over your body!) at -40F (another 55 degrees colder).

Don’t sweat.  Remove layers, unzip and open things up before you start to sweat.  The water vapor off your body will migrate out through the clothes until it condenses and freezes.

[Edward John M]

Would a ruff help?

Or should I plan on using a big shell parka with a tunnel in addition to the clothing listed

I have a Fishtail parka with a tunnel and a ruff but I thought that might be a little too heavy at 1100 grams The same weight as the much warmer L7 overparka listed last

At 15F/-10C I know I need 3 to 4 of the layers listed above when just sitting around so it seems I need a warmer midlayer or to add another midlayer

I was thinking of a MYOG using ThermalPro in a Buffalo Special 6 clone, I’ll revisit that idea as it would be warmer than the R1 layer

I could layer the big L7 over the Fishtail,  tho

Any other advice for me is appreciated

[Edward John M]

No other advice?

This deep cold is going to be a new game for me and I have no experience in the gear needed for that next 25 degrees downwards

[Micah C]

Sorry but maybe I missed the context for this list, are you climbing Denali or walking around the Baffin Islands or crossing Saskatchewan?  You listed two large areas with incredibly variable climates. You would get better help if you filled us in on what you are trying to do.

[Edward John M]

It’s a bucket list trip So I’m after a clothing list that will do the lot naturally.

If I need to add a layer the what I have listed now is my time to start planning the sewing or buy some more clothing

I’d like to spend some time in the Boreal, some time on the tundra and some time in the mountains as well as do some Yo-Yo skiing at resorts and some back country Telemarking but apart from the possibility of a warm change and rain for which I have the gear but didn’t list is what I have written down good enough to be comfortable at -30C  safe at -40C

All up it isn’t much more than I would use ski-touring here in Australia at -8C but I added an extra warm layer to fit over everything

I think I’m a bit long in the tooth to be climbing Denali in winter but a mate recently attempted a winter traverse of the Brooks Range with a clothing list not much different and I was guided by his choices in part

[Bob Moulder]

What worked for me down to -33°F:

Hands…. thin polyester liner gloves, Polartec 200 gloves, fleece pile mittens, OR mitten shells

Head… thin fleece balaclava, OR frostline hat, neoprene face mask, ski goggles

Torso… thin polyester t-shirt, medium wt LS polyester 1/2 zip turtleneck, polartec 300 fleece jacket with pit zips, GTX shell with pit zips, parka with synthetic fill (I have a Wild things parka, similar to DAS, however you want to make sure your parka is long enough to cover your butt!)

Legs… medium wt polyester long johns, nylon shorts (no liner), mountaineering shell bibs with full side zips and drop seat, polartec 200 pants with full side zips, down (or synthetic) pants will full side zips (I don’t know if those MARS pants are adequate… I found that MH Chugach pants worked for me… now called Compressor)

Make sure that the polartec pants will fit over the shell bibs and that the Compressor pants will fit over everything!

 

[Edward John M]

The MARS pants are 85GSM Primaloft nominally the same as the Chugash pants Full side zips naturally and them being a relatively slim fit is why I added in the M-65 liners with the army windpants, those do fit over everything else

OK It sounds like I need either a more solid/warmer mid layer or one more LW mid layer and that I definitely need either the L7 type 2 or the Long Fishtail but I want to try and avoid bringing both due to weight and bulk concerns if possible

[Bob Moulder]

Yep, K.I.S.S.

base, insulation, shell, puffy

Trying to mix/match a bunch of specialty items becomes complicated and heavy in a hurry.

 

[Edward John M]

Taking that advice on board Bob then fewer warmer layers seems to make more sense.

Both the Fishtail and the L7 come down to my mid thigh, they layer well and I already own them, so that ‘s the Shell and the Puffy so the question is now really about the active insulation layers and Richard Nisley commented that the combination I posted above is thermo-neutral at 0C for camp chore so I guess I’m overthinking things again

 

[Edward John M]

I have tried everything on quickly and there is a definite problem with the way the hood on the L7 overparka fits; it sits back on the head and really provides no coverage for the face.

Any advice on fixing this??

 

[Dena Kelley]

I’m a lifelong Alaskan and don’t own a single piece of gear with a tunnel hood. My activities include snowmobiling at -20 (which is pretty dang cold when you add the windchill) and I use a balaclava combined with goggles to protect my face. I have yet to frostbite, so it’s working. The main key is don’t try to tough it out- if your skin starts to burn from the cold, STOP and do something about it right then. It can take a little adjusting to ensure that you have no exposed skin. Test this at home in front of a mirror first, to make sure your goggles/balaclava setup work. I also use a no-fog mask which is goofy looking as heck but keeps my goggles from fogging from my breath. Between those 3 pieces of gear, I have zero exposed skin once I get it adjusted right.

[Edward John M]

Thanx for that advice, it seems that there are different schools of thought on hoods then.

It is strange tho that the hood on the L7 overparka is smaller than the hood on the L7 inner jacket

[Edward John M]

OK Now after thinking this through and some conversations with members who seem very experienced and well qualified to give advice I will keep my old climbing parka and simply use it as  warm layer and treat it as a mid-layer garment. It fits too tightly over the Patagonia Nano-bivvy but it still fits me over the Ninja top.

If the Nanobivvy gets little squashed it is of no matter

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Looks good so far.

Inside my older Scarpa T3 boots (and my Sorel felt pacs) I use “US  Divers” brand 3 mm neoprene divers’ sox over thin polyester or polypro liner socks. I take one pair of liner socks for each day and keep the stinky, damp used ones tightly sealed in a Ziplock freezer bag.

These closed cell neoprene divers sox are warm in themselves and are a VBL to keep my boot liners dry and thus warm. They must be seam sealed but the US Divers brand come factory sealed with Left and Right sox for a good fit. These VBLs are a necessity and should always be used, especially when you cannot get to a heated cabin or tent for the night.

*Remove boot liners and keep them inside your sleeping bag overnight otherwise suffer painfully cold feet in the morning. Wear thick “sleep socks” at night and never use them in the day.

• At night wear a fleece balaclava that easily covers your nose. “Cold nose syndrome” makes you unconsciously bury your head inside your sleeping bag and get it wet from your breath. This is a no-no.
• Be sure you have a lighter down jacket and pants to supplement hyoru sleeping bag if it gets colder than your bag’s rating. Ex. I have a -20 F. LL Bean goose down bag and I carry down jacket and pants for such times. With it I’m sure I can easily go to -30 F. from my experience with my +20 F. down bag going to -5 F. with a puffy suit.
• ** In keeping with the VBL theme, if you will be camping for more than 3 days in very low temps (sub zero) I’d consider buying a VBL suit from  Warmlite to keep your bag dry. Otherwise it will get damper every night and colder as well. During the day the moisture in your bag will freeze and NOT dry out unless you hot tent with a tent stove. (Read about the ill-fated Scott South Pole expedition. Their bags got so frozen toward the fatal end that it would take them hours to melt their way inside them!)

->For a fur ruff GOOGLE fur mitten and hat retailers.Many sell fur ruffs of several types of fur. Wolverine is very expensive but frost does not stick to it. Coyote is fine and much less expensive. a 4″ wide riff that attaches and detaches with Velcro should do the trick and be worth the money.

->

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

BTW, I use Voile’ release plates on both pair of my backcountry skis. Safety is paramount and I’m speaking as a former Nordic ski patroller who has seen broken legs and ankles.

[Edward John M]

I’ve been in contact with 40Below and I am informed that I will have to use Berghaus Insulated Supergaiters as the 40Below overboots do not fit or work with plastic Telemark boots but perhaps I need these DryGuy toe heaters as well

https://dryguy.com/product/Boot_Glove

Eric these are moulded liners, Intuition liners that do not absorb any water at all and it is neither possible nor necessary to use any insulating layer inside them down to around -20C, a much better liner than the cheaper open cell polyurethane of the lighter boots; the two pair of socks I do use are very very thin and are for blister prevention not warmth.

Getting ready for the Southern ski season and I’ll be trying out my new clothing systems to see which base layer combinations I am most comfortable with.

[Edward John M]

I have been continuing my reading and research.

I found an precis of an article by Paul Siple in the journal of polar medicine that gave some nominal maximum insulation thickness for practical use in deep cold conditions that seems to have been mirrored in an old edition of “Backpacker” that I found online. Torso 3 ” Head 1″ Arms 2″ Hands1″ Legs 2″ Feet 2″

This seems to me to be a little light on for head and hands even allowing for a shunt from the core, certainly much thicker and warmer hats seem to be the norm in very cold countries, so what’s going on there? Is this an assumption that this is active insulation? If this is active insulation how cold would it need to be for me to need to wear a full 75mm of  warm torso clothing when moderately active?

This amount of clothing is quite a bit more than the US army tables would suggest but not quite as much as my old Everest rated suit, but high thin air is quite a different matter and I think I would be very clumsy indeed wearing boots 4 + inches across

[Edward John M]

I have changed my prospective torso layering to take into account some new purchases and some expert advice

Patagonia UL base layer [ called Everyday now]

R1 top, either the hooded Ninja top or the short zip low collar version

UL Arktis windshirt

ThermalPro pullover

Polargard DAS parka [ S/H but still 70%] in XL

Down parka in XXXL with 450 grams of 800 FP DriDown

[Edward John M]

Changed the above down parka to the Mountain Hardwear Absolute Zero in XL

[Author]

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