Tarptent 2 Dipole double wall alternative

[David C]

I realize a Tarptent Dipole 2 double wall tent doesn’t exist yet, but I was hoping someone could suggest the best alternative for a true 2 person (i.e. 50″ wide) double wall tent that has the option to easily and QUICKLY convert from a star gazing mode to a full rain fly.

In addition, I’d love it to be no more than about 2.5 lbs and fairly storm worthy.

Without intending to prejudice a recommendation, I was considering the Tarptent Rainbow or the Durston XMid2.

My concern with the XMid is: 1) can’t convert from stargazing mode quickly in a storm and 2) ample headroom for two people due to the as symmetric design.

I don’t understand the Rainbow well enough to know its flaws.
<p style=”text-align: right;”>Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.</p>

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

Have a look at the Double Rainbow DW Ultra.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Hi David,

The X-Mid 2 can quickly convert from essentially a stargazing mode back to full fly coverage quickly using the ‘further variation’ method shown here (see 14:10):

You essentially roll back the entire fly to just leave a strip over the tent, and then you can quickly unroll that to redeploy the full fly. That video only shows one side rolled back, but you can roll back both sides to almost entirely expose the inner.

With regard to space/headroom, the headroom is a bit different on each side but it is quite generous for two people and >95% of users sleep the same way. If you read the real and unfiltered user reviews on our website or Kaviso.com you’ll see that people are very happy with the space inside the tent.

– Dan

[David C]

Henry,

Thank you for pointing out the Rainbow 2P Ultra. If I have compared it properly to the Rainbow 2P DW 2o23, the weights are within 1/2 ounce.

The Ultra uses the Challenge Sailcloth Ultra fabric, and I am not very familiar with the fabric. Will this make the tent significantly more stormworthy or is the main advantage something else?

Thank you,

David

 

[David C]

Dan

Thank you for your reply and sharing the video, I had watched it a long time ago and didn’t realize you had updated it.

The new information in the video (regarding the skinny pitch and the ability to adjust the rain fly for star gazing) was very informative and helpful.

I emailed you at your website with a follow-up question, feel free to reply here or there when you have time:

• When star gazing, can you see thru the the white portion of the inner liner to see the stars or will view the view area be only through the mesh portion?

Thank you,

David

[David C]

This is an addendum to my original post: I originally was only considering 2P tents, but have expanded the search to some 1P tents as well. Because I live on the east coast, I believe a double wall tent is a better choice for condensation issues – I also like the fact that many double walls offer stargazer modes.

BACKGROUND:

I am new to BPL and have tried to educate myself  before posting questions in the forum, but there are still some answers I haven’t found and would appreciate any insights from the community.

While I am convinced that both Durston and Tarptent make great gear and I will be happy with either, I created a spread sheet to help myself understand some of that variances between the two. Data is from the manufacturer’s websites, but the opinions are mine and could be erroneous.  It is posted at the bottom of this post in the event it helps anyone else.

QUESTIONS:

1) The Rainbow seems to have a long history, which indicates to me that it is a fan favorite and has performed well. I personally like it allot. That being said, would it be fair to assume that that because both the X Mid and the Dipole are newer, they have an easier setup and may be slightly more storm-worthy?

2) I read somewhere that some folks feel trekking pole tents are not as storm-worthy as free standing (and I assume semi-freestanding) tents. Would that be true even among these Durston and Tarptent offerings listed?

3) Are most people using these 2P tents for camping with a significant other, or do use this as a 1P tent because they prefer the extra space compared to a 1P tent?

Thanks to all.

 

[jscott]

I definitely prefer solo tents, for a variety of reasons. And yes, I also prefer double wall tents, although I’ve owned a single wall solo tent that was fine.

Trekking pole tents are easily as storm worthy as free standing tents, IMO. And I’ve used both styles extensively.

You’ve focused in on two very good tents. Either will serve you well. I like the Notch Li on paper–I haven’t used it!–and Durston’s solo tents as well.

A good ol’ Fly Creek UL1 will also serve well in terms of storm worthiness, and for star gazing. But the zippers are way too fragile. this is a very good free standing tent.

 

[Jerry Adams]

“I created a spread sheet”

you have come to the right place.  Over analysis : )

I make my own tents so can’t answer your questions

I like a taller tent to provide more headroom in case it rains and I have to sit up and do things.  One trekking pole isn’t long enough although two lashed together would be

[Todd T]

I don’t think you’ve told us how tall you are.  I’m one who knows that can be very important in choosing a tent.  That said, I believe everything you’re looking at–except maybe the X-Mid 1–is fairly accommodating of tall folk.

Disclaimer:  I have an older Rainbow (single, circa 2009), a Dipole 1 Li (not DW), and an X-Mid 2 silpoly (and also a Tarptent Notch, but you’re not looking at that).

Random thoughts:

I believe trekking pole tents are usually more stormworthy than standalones, at least if the ground accommodates good staking and you use good stakes (i.e., not shepherd’s hooks).

The Dipole is the most wind-worthy of my tents.  The Rainbow is the least, though it’s not bad if you avoid crosswinds.

The X-Mid has–by a long shot–the most useful vestibules and the easiest egress.  You can stand a pack up right next to the door where it is not at all in the way of egress but is easily accessed from inside the tent.  I’m 6’5″ and generally resign myself to a bit of crab walking when exiting a backpacking tent, but not so with the X-Mid 2.  I can literally spin my feet out the door and “stand up” to exit, something I’ve never before experienced.  I’ve only used my X-Mid 2 for solo packing, but I can’t imagine two would have anything but lots of headroom.

Good luck with your search.  I suspect it’s a tough decision precisely because all your options are excellent.

[David C]

Todd,

Thanks for the input, it touched on many of my questions.

Specific to your reply:

I am 5-10, so it’s rare I have to think about height issues :)

You confirmed my assumption on storm worthiness (i.e. the Dipole, then the X Mid, then the Rainbow). Do you see a significant difference in the DiPole and the X Mid?

If you get a chance to respond again, can you elaborate on: 1) ease of setup of the 3, and 2) if all 3 of the tents were the same (i.e. all DW and all 1 or 2P) what would be the tent you might choose the most, and which the least?

Thank you, very much appreciate your thoughts.

[David C]

Scott

Thanks for the reply.

I have a Marmot Super Alloy 2P, which is a semi-freestanding. It seems too big for 1 and too small for 2 (you can’t fit to 25″ pads in it).

It is certainly heavier and bigger than the Fly Creek , and while the weight of the FC is appealing, that front entry just does not appeal to me. All the same, I appreciate the suggestion.

Best, David

[David C]

Jerry,

You pegged me, I can over analyze anything :)

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“When star gazing, can you see thru the the white portion of the inner liner to see the stars or will view the view area be only through the mesh portion?”
That white fabric is not see through but that is only used in our ‘solid’ line of tents. The regular X-Mid 1 and 2 are fully mesh for the inner which is see through. You can also have both inners and use them interchangeably.

“The Rainbow seems to have a long history…would it be fair to assume that that because both the X Mid and the Dipole are newer, they have an easier setup and may be slightly more storm-worthy?”
I’d be careful about simple assumptions. For stormworthiness, I’m hesitant to get into specific comparisons partly because all of these tents are likely ‘stormworthy enough’ so for most people it shouldn’t be a deciding factor, but also stormworthiness is a very complex topic with so many factors that it can’t be done proper justice in a short answer. All brands tend to argue theirs is the best by cherry picking certain factors that favor their tent (e.g. “ours has more panels”, “yeah well ours has a smaller profile to the wind” etc), but this is moreso marketing than a fair, balanced, and useful assessment. Also, there is stormworthiness in the sense of outright physical strength but also ‘practical stormworthiness’ where the question is how liveable the tent is in harsh weather (e.g. fly first pitch, non-sag fabric, simple pitch spacious vestibules, etc). Once a tent a strong enough, focusing on practical stormworthiness is more beneficial then a never ending quest for more strength.

For setup, are all broadly similar and quite easy. You get the X-Mid and Dipole up with 4 stakes and then you may add more to reinforce. I usually hear people find the X-Mid easier than Dipole (e.g. there is less need for guylines) but both are easy so it’s a bit of a moot point. The Rainbow usually pitches with 5 stakes but trekking poles can make that 2. In unskilled hands the Rainbow may be the easiest whereas in experienced hands the X-Mid may be.

“some folks feel trekking pole tents are not as storm-worthy as free standing tents…Would that be true?”
With a freestanding tent there is less skill required but trekking pole tents are usually stronger. The pole set largely defines the shape of a freestanding tent so there is very little skill required (less reliance on stakes, minimal or no angles and distances to estimate or measure, etc). You can quickly get a good pitch with little skill or practice so it gives a good first impression. The tent may look better and feel more confidence inspiring than a trekking pole tent that is pitched poorly and flapping in the wind. However, trekking poles are much stronger than ultralight tent poles so when a trekking pole tent is pitched well (tight, good stakes) it will normally be stronger with greater potential stormworthiness. For example, most freestanding tents will collapse when about 10 lbs of weight is set on them, whereas a well pitched trekking pole tent can often hold several times that. So there is a bit more skill/experience needed to get the full benefit of a trekking pole tent but when that is present they are generally more sturdy than a typical ultralight freestanding tent.

Cheers,
Dan

[Todd T]

You confirmed my assumption on storm worthiness (i.e. the Dipole, then the X Mid, then the Rainbow). Do you see a significant difference in the DiPole and the X Mid?

I’d maybe give the Dipole the slight edge, though (1) I haven’t had either of them in a crazy sustained windstorm yet and (2) some of it may owe to comparing the smaller 1P Diplole to the larger 2P X-Mid.  But when both the sides and ends are guyed out, it feels like you could walk on the Dipole’s roof.

…can you elaborate on: 1) ease of setup of the 3

My Rainbow is the toughest to set up, but that’s probably because older models like mine have a too-tight pole sleeve that makes getting the pole in (and out) annoyingly difficult, and no adjustment buckles where the poles are held in place at the ends, so it can be *very* hard to set things with cold hands.  Both of those have been fixed on newer models, but I have no experience with them.

Between the Dipole and the X-Mid, I find the Dipole slightly easier, but that’s probably because it’s a 1P so is smaller and easier to handle.  For both of these, it’s all about the rectangle.  Get that right and everything else seems to fall in place.

…and 2) if all 3 of the tents were the same (i.e. all DW and all 1 or 2P) what would be the tent you might choose the most, and which the least?

Lotta “ifs” there!  I’m not sure my answer is all that useful to you given your disinterest in height issues. :-)  The Dipole is the most tall-friendly backpacking tent I’ve ever been in, and therefore takes 1st place in my heart.  Its head- and foot room (and “face” room) exceed even the 2P X-Mid’s when I’m lying on a diagonal.  That said, I love the X-Mid 2P for base camping because it is palatial for one.  (The Rainbow is also palatial, but the full floor length is only useful in the center of the tent; sliding to the side will push my feet into the ceiling/wall.  Newer versions may be better?)

Edit:  I should also mention that the Dipole DW is modestly different in geometry from the Li, so some of my observations may not apply to the DW.

[David C]

Todd

Thank you very much! My questions are answered :)

I really appreciate your time in responding.

David

 

[David C]

Dan

I didn’t expect such a detailed response, but it was very helpful. In particular, when you discussed storm worthiness (even when mentioning  free standing tents or the competition), your answers were thoughtful and unbiased – that is very much appreciated. 

If you (or anyone else) have time, I have two final questions regarding the tent inners (solid vs mesh):

1) CAN A PERSON PURCHASE BOTH LINERS?

• You replied: “You can also have both inners and use them interchangeably”. I did not see an option to order the SOLID, and then add a MESH inner as an option. Is there a way to do that?

2)  WILL THE SOLID LINER WORK IN STARGAZING MODE?

• Regarding the SOLID inner, you had previously mentioned: “That white fabric is not see through but that is only used in our ‘solid’ line of tents.” I do notice a good amount of mesh in the SOLID inner, and assume it still might provide a decent amount of view to the night sky in star gazer mode. Is that a fair assumption? I can’t tell that by looking at the pictures on your web site or on the internet.

Thanks again and Happy Holidays!

David

PS –  One of my concerns on the X Mid 2 was the overall fly footprint being too large. After studying things (if there is an error here, someone please correct me), that concern was not valid.

Consider this:

• When the flys are fully pitched on the X Mid and the Dipole, the X Mid is only 2 SF larger: (X Mid: 83″ x 100″ = 57.6 SF / Dipole: 82″ x 94″ = 53.5 SF).
• Using the X Mid 2 skinny pitch on one side reduces the fly area by about 11 SF, so the fly area reduces from 57.6 to about 47 SF.
• By my estimates, the skinny pitch fly footprint is comparable or less than many of the 2P free and semi-free standing tents.

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Hi Dave,

We are going to make the inners available separately starting in late March. I’m not sure of the exact pricing yet but I price our gear with relatively little markup, so we wouldn’t have an additional bundling discount. There will just be the inners available separately for roughly half the total price of the tent. So you can purchase whichever model you prefer now and then add the other inner later.

The mesh on the solid inners is only the top half of the doors. This provides some airflow and lets you see out sideways, but the roof is solid fabric. You can see this at the link below to judge if that is enough stargazing for you:
https://durstongear.com/cdn/shop/files/x-mid-2-solid-ultralight-tent-europe-6_1.jpg

There are some more pictures on the X-Mid 2 Solid page and X-Mid 1 Solid page.

For the footprint, yes you can collapse one or both vestibules of the X-Mid 2 pitch so it pitches in the smaller area of the floor rather than the larger rectangle area of the fly (57 -> 35 sq ft). This is smaller than virtually all 2P tents and similar to most 1P tents. We have a video showing this. When the vestibules are collapsed the footprint area is 35% smaller than the Dipole 2 (35 vs 54 sq ft). On the Dipole the doors can be rolled back to accommodate an object in the vestibule area (e.g. a stump) but you wouldn’t be able to do that and close the fly, nor actually collapse the vestibules (to change the corner stake locations).

[David C]

I have everything I need to make a decision. I’ll be putting in an order for one of the X-Mids.

Thank you for all the information!

[Sam Farrington]

Can’t stop wondering why if Henry put an inner wall on the 1P, why he didn”t for the 2P.

[David C]

Sam,

Hopefully, its in the works. Henry wide have to with in on that.

 

D

[Sam Farrington]

Thanks, David

[Emma D]

Thanks all – this is a very helpful thread. I’m also deciding between likely the Durston X-mid 2P and the Tarptent Dipole 2p (conflicted between the li and the DW) with the DW Double rainbow in a more distant 3rd place. Though I’m hesitant to make a decision till the x-dome full specs are available as I’m slightly apprehensive never having used trekking pole tents before.

I’ve borrowed a friends older model Rainbow and have to agree that the pole in the sleeve makes the set up slower and trickier than I’d like. I also find the “awning” mode on the doors too short to be useful and kind of in the way but the interior space is pleasant and I like the balance of mesh and fabric on the newer inners. Really wish they used clips instead of the long sleeve.

I camp with a medium sized dog in condensation prone conditions so I’m very mindful of 1) floor durability and 2) ventilation options. Can anyone speak to the puncture resistance of the different floor materials between these tents? or their experience with condensation with these different models?

I’d really like to stargaze but the windows on the tarptent li might be worth it given the weight saving and bigger interior feel (from what I hear).

I wish the Durston interior had a semi-solid option with more privacy on the side panels and star gazing mesh on the roof!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Regarding the interior, often times people wanting a solid inner like to have the roof solid because it will block splatter if you get condensation on the fly that is knocked off by wind or rain. You can have mesh here and it is nice for views, but it is less protective. Essentially you have full mesh inners for the most ventilation, solid fabric around the bottom to block drafts/splatter, and then close to full solid fabric to fully protect from condensation contact.

Condensation can be minimized with ventilation if the source is ‘internal’ (e.g. breathing, cooking, wet clothes) but if the source is ‘external’ (e.g. cold, foggy/humid environment) then venting is just exchanging humid air for other humid air. So venting is nice for cooling the tent in hot conditions and can help with condensation, but having a way to manage it (e.g. solid inner) is more effective that trying to fully avoid it.

Puncture resistance is roughly correlated with the denier of the fabric. All of these tents are reasonably durable though.

[Author]

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