Tarp Tie-Out Questions

[Hoosier T]

Hi all, I’m getting ready to start building my first tarp. I have beat my brain trying to decide what to do with tie-outs and I’m over it so I’m looking to you for advice. This will be a 9 x 10 flat tarp with three tie-outs on the short sides and five on the long (counting the corners), three along the ridgeline, and two mid-panel on each side. Okay…so where I’m torn is that I would like the option to insert trekking pole tips on any of my perimeter tie outs(duh, it’s a flat tarp after all) , but I would also like to use LineLoc3’s. How are you guys doing this? Of course the easy, but heavy method would be to sew beatee dees to all the tie-outs, then sew grosgrain loops to the line locs, the girth hitch the line locs to the beastee at each tie-out. I really don’t want all that hardware. What gives? There has to be a common way to do this with line locs on all tie outs for a flat tarp. Help!! My brain hurts…Please keep in mind that this is my very first tarp, I have never even handled one in person, ever, so my entire understanding and planning has come from here so I’m sorry if the answer to this is easy.

[Hoosier T]

P.S. I know grommets are another obvious choice but I have read that they can tear out so unless you disagree, then I’m intentionally avoiding them.

[Monte Masterson]

I don’t see why you couldn’t just sew the linelocks onto the grosgrain tieouts (when you sew them to the tarp) the way MLD does. The pole tips shouldn’t crack the linelocks, but I could be wrong.

[Hoosier T]

I’ve never seen an MLD tarp in person but all the photos I have found indicate that they use grommets. Is that not the case?

[Jordo _99]

MLD uses both:

http://www.litekayaking.com/2010/09/gear-review-mld-grace-cuben-duo-tarp.html

I put grommets on a 1″ piece of webbing to help pull the bathtub floor of my tent (pole tips go into the grommets and keeps the sides of the floor in place…also keeps the pole tips from driving into soft ground)

 

The other thing you could do (which Monte may be inferring) is to have a loop in the tieout sized to fit a pole tip, with a lineloc at the end…If you do a half twist, then your lineloc will be sideways but work much better with the pole (lineloc performance shouldn’t be affected)

[Ben Wortman]

Here is what I have done and it works very well for me.  Start by sewing a short length of gross grain to the tarp edge.  The take a short length of cordage and tie to to the gross grain (fisherman’s knot).  You can use this small loop in the cordage to put your trekking pole tip into.  For the line lock, you can add it to the cordage before you girth hitch it to the gross grain webbing.  Then you will have a spot for your trekking pole tip as well as the line loc.   It will be easy to remove later if you don’t want it on.  Plus, the cordage will be good for staking directly to the ground since you don’t want to run the stake through the gross grain webbing for durability.  If the cordage is warn through, all you have to do is tie on another instead of replacing and re-sewing the gross grain on.

 

 

[Hoosier T]

The other thing you could do (which Monte may be inferring) is to have a loop in the tieout sized to fit a pole tip, with a lineloc at the end…If you do a half twist, then your lineloc will be sideways but work much better with the pole (lineloc performance shouldn’t be affected).

I think I have seen this when looking through gobs of photos on Google and wasn’t sure I loved it. Maybe I just need to abandon Line Locs for the side tie-outs and sew on Beastee Dees then use straight line with a blake’s hitch. I would still use use Line Locs for the two ridgeline tie outs and just girth hitch those to the Beastees. I just wanted to avoid having double plastic hardware all the way around but I think I could live with only having it for two tie-outs and I think having Line Locs for the ridgeline will be valuable for getting it crazy tight. Unless someone has something better…I’m stumped.

[AG]

the MLD way is useful and elegant, and a grommet in webbing is unlikely to fail.

alternately, if you’re not married to the Line Lock 3, there’s the zpacks way, which is, unsurprisingly, lighter: skip the Line Lock 3s; use cups at pole points (or a simple clove hitch); use ultra thin 1.25 mm cord; and get taut pitch from moving the stakes and/or tightening at stake side with Micro Line Locks.

http://www.zpacks.com/images/accessories/pole_cups/cups_l.jpg

i’m not sure the zpacks way is “better” but just to give you some other ideas.

and why add beastees at all (over just grosgrain or nylon cord loops)? you like a cleaner contact point? the beastees might not be necessary.

[Hoosier T]

and why add beastees at all (over just grosgrain or nylon cord loops)? you like a cleaner contact point? the beastees might not be necessary.

I watched the Ryan Jordan video and I suppose that’s an option but yes, I guess I was just obsessed with the cleanest outcome and I’m realizing that might be putting form over function. Anyone had any trouble with the grosgrain loop slipping down the pole? I know that the opposite forces being exerted on the pole are what keeps it from slipping but anyone ever had a failure?

[bjc]

I use Ben’s method of cordage attached to a small loop of grosgrain as well. works great, easy to repair if needed and holds the pole. Picked it up from a tarp I bought from Gen at Yama Mountain, Works great.

[Hoosier T]

Ben or BJ, would either of you happen to have a photo? I am interested in this but having trouble visualizing where exactly the pole tip goes and how it stays put. Does the tip only go through the cordage or both the cordage and the grosgrain?

[Hoosier T]

Like this? Does the small loop here really secure a pole tip without having baskets?

 

[Hoosier T]

And if so, what kind of cord is the white one? Would I just use a piece of guy line?

[Matthew / BPL]

I like the MLD grommet. With high quality grosgrain and a properly set grommet I don’t think you’d have any problem. I doubt MLD has many failures…

[Hoosier T]

They only use the grommets for the ridgeline though, right? I would assume they’re too heavy to use for all the perimeter tie outs so do their perimeter tie outs just have grosgrain loops? For their flat tarps for instance, where they expect people might use a pole on any  of the tie outs?

[Matthew / BPL]

I think it depends on the tarp. The Monk Tarp puts them on the middle tie out on the long side as well as the ridgeline.

[Rory Goforth]

I like the small loop for a pole tip, make it as big as you need from cord or grosgrain and girth hitch linlocs as needed to them.

 

http://blog.owareusa.com/tag/line-loc-3/

[Hoosier T]

Yea that looks really nice. But will just a grosgrain loop hold the pole without sliding down it? Seems like there will be a lot of downward force on the loop with a very small lip on the pole tip to keep it from sliding.

[Ben Wortman]

The picture you posted is what I was talking about.  I would just use guyline for the while line in the picture.  I would not use gross grain to run the pole tip into since grossgrain is more probe to damage than a guyline wold be.  Then you would have to sew on new gross grain vs just tying on a new cord.  Run the pole tip between the linloc and the grossgrain through the cordage.  (The white cord)

[Hoosier T]

I like the idea of being able to field repair with simple guyline using this method. However, I’m still having trouble understanding how the parallel pieces of line manage to stay up on the pole tip when the pole doesn’t have baskets. Are you using baskets?

[Ben Wortman]

I’m using baskets.  without them, you would have to size your “loop” correctly.

[Hoosier T]

Well I wanted to close the loop on this. I continued reading other thread and found some compelling arguments for pitching with the pole tips down. As such, I pulled the trigger on two pole cups from Zpacks. Since these just attach with a lark’s head knot, I can just take them off the ridgeline and move them to another tie out if i decide to pitch in something other than A-frame. I’ll just attach my Lineloc 3s to the cups and be all set. Thanks for all your help!

[Hoosier T]

Okay, one more question. For the times when I have two well spaced trees and wish to tie the ridgeline to the trees, I would just be removing the Zpacks cups and tying the line right through the tieout then around the tree. HERE is the question, for that particular application, would Zing-it line do well? I would like to carry separate line for uses like this but want it to be light. Zing-it looks crazy light and strong so assuming it will grip will around a tree, I can’t see why it wouldn’t work but I would definitely appreciate some input.

[Hoosier T]

In addition to the above, would a blake’s hitch do well with that line?

[AG]

Haven’t used that line. But a trucker’s hitch will get you the best tension on a ridge line, because it’s basically a pulley. (And you get to tie my favorite knot, the alpine butterfly!) then I don’t see why you couldn’t secure the line with your blakes hitch or any similar guyline knot (or just a half hitch).

 

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