Strength/weight/space ratio: Nallo 2 with double poles

[Juho V]

Hi and Happy New Year!

While searching for a light but super strong winter camping tent for two I came accross this video:

https://youtu.be/fO5qF6lH818?si=upNHbb340kx-Is0d

He uses double 9mm poles which would add 322g to the tent’s 2.4kg bringing it to 2722g which is exactly 6 pounds.

Looking at the video I don’t think I’ve seen worse wind conditions in another tent test. 80mph winds and with the double poles the tent is super stable.

I think the tent also has quite a good amount of space especially towards and in the vestibule. Also the sitting hight while cooking is quite good.

Could this be one of the strongest tents when double poled compared to the weight and space?

If you look at a tent like SlingFin WindSaber it comes around 2.66kg which is 5lbs  14oz so 62g lighter but with less space especially in the vestibules. It has 4 DAC 10.65 poles where as the Nallo 2 would have 2×2 9mm poles.

Another thing which I never see in Scandinavian style tents is the gap in the perimeter which SlingFin  has and also only 20D floor material compared to 70D in the Nallo 2. Also the fly fabric is 20D compared to 30D in the Hilleberg.

Nallo 2 specs from Ultralightoutdoorgear.com:

Inner tent area: 2.6 m2/28 ft2
Vestibule area: 1.3 m2/14 ft2
Fly fabric: Kerlon 1200, 30 D High Tenacity Ripstop Nylon 66
Fly treatment: Coated on both sides with a total of 3 layers of 100% silicone, and treated for UV resistance during dyeing and coating
Fly hydrostatic head: 5000 mm/49 kPa (ISO 811)
Fly tear strength: min. 12 kg (ISO 13937-4)
Inner tent fabric: 30 denier Ripstop Nylon
Inner tent treatment: Durable Water Repellent (DWR)
Floor fabric: 70 denier Nylon
Floor treatment: Triple-coated Polyurethane
Floor hydrostatic head: 15000 mm/147 kPa (ISO 811)
Floor miscellaneous: Highly puncture & abrasion resistant
Poles (9mm): 1 x 305, 1 x 260 cm / 1 x 120.1, 1 x 102.4 in
Pegs: 16 V-Peg
Pack size: 48 x 17cm/19 x 6.5in

 

Windsabers specs:

SPECS
Minimum Weight (with WebTruss)
4lbs 15.8oz (2.26kg)
Minimum Weight (without WebTruss)
4lbs 13oz (2.18kg)
Packaged Weight
5lbs 14oz (2.66kg)
Capacity
2
Floor Area
28sq ft (2.6sq m)
Interior Height
40″ (102cm)
Dimensions
85″ x 39″/60″/39″ (216cm x 99cm/152cm/99cm) (head/elbows/foot)
Vestibule Area
5sq ft x 2 (0.46sq m)
Tent Body Volume
54cu ft (1.53cu m)
Vestibule Volume
9.39cu ft x 2 (0.27cu m)
Packed size
18″ x 9″ (46cm x 23cm)
Pole Package Length
17.75″ (45cm)
Poles
4 DAC PL 10.65mm
Doors
2
Vents
1 tent body/flysheet drawstring vent, 2 flysheet kickstand vents
Included Stakes
16 DAC J-Stake S
Included Guylines
10x 72″ 2.5mm orange reflective nylon
MATERIALS
Tent Body Fabric
15D Nylon Ripstop DWR FR-free
Floor Fabric
20D*430T Nylon ripstop sil/sil 1500mm
Fly Fabric
20D*430T Nylon ripstop sil/sil 1500mm
Poles
4 DAC PL 10.65mm

 

 

[bradmacmt]

I’d look long and hard at the Tarp Tent ArcDome 2 Ultra… under 4lbs.

https://www.tarptent.com/product/arc-dome/#tab-id-2

[Juho V]

Hah! That is very cool! In 2017 I had discussion with Henry at the Tarpent to design something new on the standard “Hilleberg Rogen” -type of of dome tent. I was hoping for a single door with a good overhang so that the water cannot come in in case of slight rain when door is open for the views. He said “To be honest, I have no interest in copycat design and the standard dome tent (with brow pole) has been done innumerable times.” I answered to him that I hope he comes up with something new on this design. And NOW he did with the Ultra fabric and putting the inner tent offset to the outer tent making a virtual vestibule. This design is freaking cool! Well done!

Yeah! That would be a winner! But I need a little bigger vestibule for this purpose. But that said, I think I need to buy this tent as well. Anyone want to buy a SlingFin Portal 2 in Finland :D

[Juho V]

I think one of a larger tents that “should” be strong and light and very spacious is Samaya 3.0 at 2930 g (6 lb 7 oz) but this one is 1800€.

The dimensions are massive:

Floor dimensions: 2,400 mm x 2,200 mm (94 in x 79 in)
Surface area: 4.2 m² (45.2 sq. ft.)
Height: 1,300 mm (51 in)
Interior volume: 3.5 m³ (123.6 cu. ft.)
Packed size: ø 220 mm x 350 mm (9 in x 14 in)
Packed volume: 10.4 L (635 cu.inch)

And the materials:

Floor fabric: Dyneema® Composite Fabric 43 g/m²
Wall fabric: 3-layer laminated Cordura® fabric – Nanovent® membrane
Removable roof fabric: Dyneema® Composite Fabric 34 g/m²
Snow skirts: Dyneema® Composite Fabric 43 g/m²
Vents: Adjustable, water-repellent YKK® zip
Entry doors: Adjustable, water-repellent Aquaguard® YKK® zip & Dyneema® flap
Floor angles: Cordura® and Dyneema® reinforcement

It has 4 DAC FeatherLite™ PL 10.65 mm in geodesic pattern creating 7 crossings of poles.

But yeah it is a bit pricey… And there is no reviews of it at all. It does not have a vestibule but you can attach one. But with this amount of space I don’t think I would need a vestibule. Not sure about the durability on the long run either which would be important for me.

[Paul S]

Did the guy in the Nallo video actually measure 80mph winds? If not, they were probably not 80mph. A lot of you tube videos brag about wind speeds, but they go by the weather forecast, not an actual measurement.

[Juho V]

You are correct Paul! He had a weather warning of 81mph gusts. He did measure 50mph steady wind before the weather seemed to get too wet and maybe even more windy. So no! I would say gusts might have been +50mph for sure. He also said that unless the wind had changed to more towards the side (from what I understood) he could have managed with only single poles.

Still definitely one of the worst windy videos I’ve seen but it might be because of the rain which made it extra difficult. The rain with the pressure made it through the vent’s black fabric and got the inner tent also wet.

[Jerry Adams]

I think the video showed him measuring windspeed with a meter.  The highest number I saw was 50.  But I didn’t look at this too closely.

[Martin Van Laarhoven]

The Nallo 2 seems like a great tent for winter camping, especially with the double poles. Those 80mph winds really show how solid it is! I agree that the extra space and sitting height are big advantages, especially when cooking.

[George H]

We once measured 72 mph gusts with an anenometer crossing over an 11k’ pass. We had to crawl; the dog needed a leash not to blow away; gravel was rolling and smaller pieces going airborne. It was so intense!

[Chris R]

I’m not sure I’d want to be stuck with another person inside a Nallo 2 in winter. By the time you add in voluminous winter bags, puffy jackets etc there wouldn’t be much room. Maybe the Nallo 3 would be a better option.

[Juho V]

Hah but it’s my wife 😇

I was looking at Nallo 2 just because of the space. Maybe Nammatj 2 would be tiny bit more spacious.

[Jon Solomon]

Have you looked at Wilderness Equipment First Arrow?

You could mix and match components between the UL and the X versions, pairing the lighter inner tent of the UL version with the 11.1mm poles and 40D sil/sil fly with snow flaps of the X version. The weight will probably be very close to what you’re looking at already.

I haven’t used a First Arrow but have used seven different Hillebergs and there are some things on paper about the Arrow that I would definitely prefer, starting with the smooth, not raised, pole sleeves on the fly. The raised pole sleeve construction on Hilleberg tents tends to collect snow. The First Arrow has lots of other advantageous details and importantly more space, as it’s really a 2.5P configuration. A blue fly (X version) would also be easier to see in whiteout conditions.

Another possibility would be a Quadratic Tent from The Theory Works with carbon poles and carbon side poles.

I’d be cautious about using Ultra TNT (on the Tarptent Arc Dome) if you might encounter flying/falling ice and debris. I’ve read user field experience where ice and debris punctured the mylar in the relatively large spaces between the UHMWPE fibers (while a DCF tent did fine on the same trip). Otherwise, it looks like a very strong tent, esp at that weight, due to the fabric.

Hilleberg did a wind tunnel video showing the difference between adding more guylines (akin to double guylines) versus double poling. The takeaway is that adding more guylines works better at less weight, though obviously the stoutest option is to combine both.

[Juho V]

The Nallo 3 with double poles would be around 3044g. Not bad option either.

One other interesting alternative would be Crux X2 Shadow SL. It’s a single wall tent with strong structure (geodesic?) and what I can see it has more space than the Nallo 2. I’ve never slept in single-wall tent with a breathable fabric so I have no idea how it compares in warmth and condensation management.

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
People
2
Total weight
2350 g (complete)
Tent body
1345 g
Poles
815 g
Bags, pegs, guys
190 g
Flysheet
Waterproof and breathable X-tex
60 g/m², 20 denier, polyester ripstop
20,000 mm hydrostatic head PU/activated carbon
25,000 g/m²/24hr MVTR
Groundsheet
50 g/m², 30 denier, ripstop nylon
10,000 mm hydrostatic head TPU coating
Poles
2 x 9.60 mm Ø DAC Featherlite NSL
2 x 9.00 mm Ø DAC Featherlite NSL
Guylines
4 x 2.00 mm Dyneema with mini-Linelok adjusters, 2 m length
Pegs
6 x 7001-T6 alloy pegs, 12 g each
4 x Titanium pegs, 8 g each
Packed size
45 cm x 20 cm Ø
Made In
China

DIMENSIONS
Inner length
225 cm
Inner width
135 cm
Inner height
107 cm
Porch
100 cm

[Juho V]

Thanks Jon for really cool tips and ideas.

I had a look at the both tents you suggested. Wow these are really interesting tents I’ve never seen. The Wilderness Equipment First Arrow reminds me of some of the original tunnel tent aerodynamic designs. Really cool. In normal configuration the X would be around 2980g which for the space, snow flaps, 11.1mm poles and 100D inner bottom fabric is really really impressive. I can see they only include 9 pegs. Swapping the inner to the UL inner would maybe reduce the weight for some… 100g? Maybe not worth it as the durability also matters to me.

Two things I wonder about this tent: firstly there is not a single review of this blue updated version of the X. Another even more worrying is the ventilation. There is no other option than opening the zipper on top of the door. Considering the situation where the wind would change the direction coming towards the vestibule would be concerning to me. So yeah real world reviews would be great.

The quadratic tent with carbon poles and side poles and winter snow outer and inner would come around 3660g. That would make one heck of a sturdy tent though!

In the video I mentioned the guy also mentions double guy lines but I didn’t pay attention to those. Will investigate.

[Jon Solomon]

The First Arrow has covered vents on the head and foot ends. Both head and foot open up completely, if desired. Try asking Wilderness Equipment directly about your questions. They are very responsive.

The Quadratic Tent @ 2.777 kg :
Light Outer 1040g ; Winter Inner 1190g ; Carbon Pole Set 395g ; 1 Carbon Side Pole 152g.
2.929 kg if you opt for two carbon side poles.

Here is a link to the Hilleberg video I mentioned. They get into double guylines and double poling later in the video, with measured windspeeds.

[bradmacmt]

Wilderness Equipment has some very interesting gear – I’d just recently discovered them. But man, what a horrible website!

[Juho V]

I think that the Wilderness Equipment would be fantastic option for us but it’s sold from Australia only and I’m based in Finland. If there was some issue it would be quite difficult to deal with. Also the lack of reviews is bothering me.

Regarding the space/weight/strenght I think Nammatj 2 is a strong one but then again with exactly the same weight I could get Nallo 3 with double 9mm poles. I could leave the double poles home on better expected weather or below treeline outings. Just sent a question to Hilleberg asking which of those two they would consider stronger.

[George H]

Brad, seems to me like a normal, easy to use modern website?

[peter v]

double side guys, and thusly running them splayed really locks things down better than hoping the side fabric keeps everything in line. the std 9mm poles will take a fair amount of abuse in the flexing dept, as the upper sections are pre-bent, which lets thing get pretty out-of-hand before you kink one.

one thing I did not see, although he could have been doing it, is throwing an overhand knot, to make a loop (about 5′ bring ideal) in the staked end of any line that has “two ends and one anchor”. this then makes you run a pari of tension adjusters for sure, but … it prevents slack from transferring from one run to the other. this simple hack makes your rig more stable/stronger/better.

I have Akto’s, and have never in all three of them fully set one up the way they come rigged out of the box. I think they do the corners “wrong”. but .. hike your own hike, eh ?

love Hilleberg tents, nonetheless, sort’a same thing with my newest Enan, didn’t even get it erected brand new before cutting it up and re-working the end pole design. sets up faster now, stronger too. the poor thing needs better door mesh as well.

[bradmacmt]

Brad, seems to me like a normal, easy to use modern website?

Really? Reminds me of the horrible creations found on the web in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. Extremely difficult to navigate.

Instead of having multiple page options for, say, backpacks, you have only one page which requires you keep scrolling downward while opening more “loadings.” Then, if you open something, when you want to go back you have to start all over at the top of the page and reload everything again to get back to where you were.

Absolutely abominable by any modern standard.

[Juho V]

Peter, thanks for the tips regarding the knot on the peg. There was something a bit similar in the Hilleberg video Jon posted above. Maybe it was only for the additional guy line.

I have never had issues with anchors coming loose in winter but I have had one time guyline snap on the wind side during the night making the opposite side pole snap.

It’s interesting to see what Hilleberg thinks of whether Nallo 3 double poled or Nammatj 2 single poled will be stronger or not. Because there might be other weak points before the 10mm pole or double 9mm.

Contacted also Wilderness Equipment about their First Arrow X with some additional questions. Shipping to Finland might be costly.

[bradmacmt]

I’d be cautious about using Ultra TNT (on the Tarptent Arc Dome) if you might encounter flying/falling ice and debris. I’ve read user field experience where ice and debris punctured the mylar in the relatively large spaces between the UHMWPE fibers (while a DCF tent did fine on the same trip). Otherwise, it looks like a very strong tent, esp at that weight, due to the fabric.

@JohnSolomon do you have a link for this information? Thanks.

[Jon Solomon]

Brad: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1hs6yjr/comment/m53979x/

[bradmacmt]

Jon, thank you. Below is a quote by Dan Durston from that thread:

UltraTNT is something we’ve tested but haven’t wanted to put into a shelter for a few reasons (e.g. large fiber gaps create vulnerabilities, fairly easy to tear by hand, bulky). I think they are working on much tighter fiber spacing, which could be interesting.

[Juho V]

One thing that bothers me with the Nallo design similar to some other Hilleberg tents like Jannu for example: they are adviced to be pitched vestibule into the wind. For the Nallo they say that it is to avoid inner tent touching the foot end of the sleeping bag. Pitched into the wind they prove in a video it’s less of an issue. But how is the venting suppose to work then? If I cook inside the wind would push the exhaust and moisture towards the inner tent.

Then they have the other vent at the foot end at the ground. It would be logical that if you pitched the tent the foot end to the wind it would push air from the foot end vent towards the vestibule vent and out. Also going in to the tent from wind side is less logical. This all feels like design issues. But many like the tent and it is quite light for what it is.

Even in Nammatj the slanted foot end inner tent is a problem for tall people but for me it has been ok. I’m 180cm and have used very high sleeping pads and puffy bags.

In the Nallo the foot end is even more slanted.

There’s not much info about the WE First Arrow X but it seems to have straight or even slanted towards the end inner fabric.

Also what I can understand First Arrow is supposed to pitch foot end to the wind and the wind is supposed to ”pull” the air out from the vent.

Here’s a comparison:

Nallo 3

First Arrow X

Any thoughts?

[Author]

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