Stealthiest shelter fabric color for woodland environment

[Bonzo]

If popularity is a judge, the silver-gray/foliage green color is by far the biggest seller, about 9 to 1 over brown, tan, green or bright colors.

Is that because of popularity, or because a lot of the most popular shelter designs are only offered in that color?

[Roger Caffin]

I wonder why – with all of our fabric-printing technology – manufacturers don’t offer more multicolor fabric options,
Well, one reason is that such fabrics are made in (something like) 1,000 metre lengths. That’s a lot of $$. Sure, the shipping rolls are shorter, but that is for convenience.
Why so long? Economics, including set-up costs and wastage at the start of a run.

Cheers

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I have heard that because of evolution the human eye is very sensitive to the color green so green is actually not very stealthy. And having had to follow overgrown trails marked by tape, it actually turns out that the color blue is really easy to see so avoid blue. Looks like brown and olive are probably the best in the forest, and gray in the Sierras.

[Dave @ Oware]

“Is that because of popularity, or because a lot of the most popular shelter designs are only offered in that color?”

Sort of a self perpetuation thing? Tarptent sells it in grey, so customers only want grey when buying from REI?

I don’t know, but when I cut out a batch of tarps I cut 9 for 1 of every other color. Unless I can sell another for a good discount.

[Bonzo]

Maybe it’s self-perpetuating, maybe it isn’t.  I can only speak for my own preferences, and since I’m not that particularly concerned with blending in, the ubiquitous grey-green is just that, to me: ubiquitous grey-green.  Neither one nor the other, and in my eyes, rather ugly and an evil to be grudgingly dealt-with if one wants to use particular shelters.  At least the Tarptent version seems more cleanly grey than green, but if they offered their designs in other colors I would be all over them.

[Monte Masterson]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like when silnylons first came onto the market grays were the cheapest and most available color. Is it because that’s closer to nylon’s default color during the manufacturing process? Dumb question perhaps. I’m guessing gray takes less time and resources to produce, hence the trend got started. Maybe less dyeing is required, I don’t know.

[Roger Caffin]

One of the problems with bright colours in nylons is that the dyes used are more susceptible to UV degradation. Sell a bright red tent, and in a couple of years it fades out and you may have a lot of claims for returns.

Another problem with some bright colours in nylon is that the dye itself permits UV degradation of the nylon fibre. Same problem.

I once had a tent with alternate yellow and blue panels. I used it a lot. After a few years the yellow panels shredded like paper.

Cheers

[Michael B]

Is there lab testing to show the quantitative effects of different colors on aging? That is a very interesting thought. Does the same apply for poly, or just nylon?

[Roger Caffin]

I am not aware of any lab testing, but that is because I haven’t looked. My testing was done ‘in the field’.

There is some theory behind all this, according to some fabric experts. Dyes absorb light and then reradiate certain wavelengths: that is why they have a ‘colour’. Blue dyes reradiate the shorter wavelengths, which means those photons do not get to damage the molecular structure of the base nylon. On the other hand, yellow dyes absorb the short wavelength photons and let them get into the nylon, causing slow damage.

What that means for my red winter tent I am not sure. Perhaps the fabric will degrade over time? But I do not pitch the tent until evening, and it comes down early in the morning.

Cheers

[Bonzo]

It means that we should laminate a metallic layer on all of our tent fabric in order to reflect the most energy.  Won’t be the stealthiest approach, though…

[Roger Caffin]

Has been done, but for some unpenetrable reason they put the aluminised side inside the tent. Cheap supermarket tent, not light.

Cheers

[Michael B]

So, by that line of logic, would white or lighter grey reradiate (or, rather, reflect?) the most light, and therefore provide the best measure of defense? This is going away from stealthiness of fabric topic, I apologize. A camouflage of lighter natural colors could prove valuable on both fronts.

[Roger Caffin]

Sigh. It is not that simple (it never is).

If by ‘white’ you mean an undyed nylon fibre, no. It would have no defenses. Undyed nylon is normally a slightly ‘dirty white’.

If by ‘white’ you mean a dye like TiO2 deeply embedded within the fibres, then yes, as the TiO2 particles would block the light from reaching the fibres. But I do not know of any such dye as a consumer item. And I do not know what can be used to make real ‘white’ either.

Light grey would (I think) suffer from a paucity of dye molecules.

In fact, it is my understanding that a carbon black ‘dye’ might be the most effective. Typically you can buy nylon stock (rods, sheet) in either raw (dirty white) or black. I find the black nylon to be stiffer than the raw – due I imagine to the carbon particles. I am talking here about nylon stock which is solid black, right through. (I use this for my winter stoves.) This is totally different from fabric.

However, that is not the end of the story. When dying fabric, the dye does not go in very far – maybe 20 microns, maybe more or less, it depends … An added complication is that when you search for ‘dying nylon’, what you will get will be half ads for fabric dyes like RIT. They are meant to be applied after the fabric has been made. Many of them are analine dyes, while others are extracts from various plants. All of those are ‘organic’, and that means they can be degraded by UV.

So how do factories dye nylon fabric? Usually with a dye bath, with high pressure and temperatures around 100 C. This has to be done in big batches, which is where we came in.

How do factories dye fabric in ‘camo’? With pad dyeing (ie daubing), which is not as effective, and still has to be done in large batches for economy and to give them time (distance along the fabric) to get the process running properly.

If you happened to live near a textile mill, I suspect you might be able to get some really good deals, albeit with erratic colours. But they are all in Asia.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  So agree with Bonzo’s earlier post about variety.

And agree with Roger about not subjecting tents to harsh sunlight.

That wraps the color wars up for me,  but am probably dimwitted.

Speaking of which, check in regularly to try to learn more about tents.  The comments from actual users are spot on, even when they are about problems and not about solutions.  The rest I’ll not comment about because of what my late uncle advised:  If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything.  I do have some advice, though.  Given the TarpTent and BigSky offerings, the tent lab designs, even with much text but little info, are not worth your money.

[Bonzo]

Yesterday, I did about ten miles on a little out-and-back in the northwest corner of SC, and as the elevation changed – 1500′ to about 3600′ or so – I was watching the general color of the forest.  At the lowest points there was a solid mix of green and brown – tons of deep green rhododendron and laurel, and even dark purple doghobble (I think) – but in the places where one would actually at up a tent it was a solid medium brown color: there were weathered fallen leaves, and that’s all.  A bit of grey-brown on tree trunks, but not enough to matter.

1000′ further up,  grey and darker brown became more prominent: rock outcroppings, smaller underbrush, and exposed soil on the slopes.  Medium brown was still the background color, though, but a greyish tint would have helped due to the increasing presence of that shade.

At 3500-ish, dark green and grey were dominant, with a mix of tan from dead grasses.  In the flattest areas the brown of old leaves was still present, but the overall palette was balanced towards the other shades.

Conclusion: even in this one small area, picking a color that really blends in would be difficult.  There are just too many exceptions to whatever the dominant color happens to be…and as soon as your overall geography changes, the palette will change as well.

[Kattt]

@Bonzo

I enjoyed reading your description of the landscape and its colors. You observe .  Thanks

[Dave @ Oware]

Anecdotal-

Red seems to fade about the quickest. Check out red cars. Red climbing web left at rap stations etc.

Black produces the darkest shade from sun. It will be coolest to stay under if you are not too close to it- 3 ft or so (1 meter for Rodger)  and in my experience holds up best to UV. Is stealthy at night ,^).

Commercial shade cloth for garden nurseries is black or dark green and made of polypro.

—

The diameter of the thread the fabric is woven from also has an effect. 10 denier has much more surface area exposed compared to 200 denier for example.

The only time I have heard of the lighter fabrics being a problem is at very high altitude where a shelter or a backpack is out for weeks. (Denali for a couple of months, Patagonia etc.)

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

Militaries have studied this topic for decades.  While most have gone to camouflage patterns, there are still plenty of monochrome color choices that have proven effective.  It appears that commercially-available fabrics are not always consistent with the Fed Standards.

e.g., Coyote 498 brown; https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=Federal%20Standard%20595C&cRef=20150&metallic2=False&cDescription=Coyote%20476%20/%20498

e.g., Tan 499; https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=Federal%20Standard%20595C&cRef=20180&metallic2=False&cDescription=Tan%20499

e.g., Dark Earth (aka Field Drab); https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=BS%20Other&cRef=BS%20350&metallic2=False&cDescription=Dark%20Earth

e.g., Ranger Green; https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=AMS%20Standard%20595A&cRef=34076&metallic2=False&cDescription=U.S.%20Army%20/%20Ranger%20green

e.g., Olive Drab; https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=Federal%20Standard%20595C&cRef=33070&metallic2=False&cDescription=Olive%20drab%20camouflage

V/R,

Aubrey

p.s., I’m not aware of any deer or wild sheep that are green, yet they can be very difficult to see in nature when not moving.

[Bonzo]

@kattt – The OP’s question was a good one, and not least because it gave me an excuse to look at the land in a different way.  Too often I look at things in terms of grade or elevation or ascent or distance, and too rarely I look in terms of simple color and pattern and shape.  It’s a beautiful world that we inhabit; it would be a shame if we weren’t reminded to look at it as only that, from time to time.

[Monte Masterson]

There’s a reason why the US Army chose olive drab as their go to color for clothes, choppers, tents, etc. Of course now different camos are employed for whatever environment soldiers are operating in, but I’m not sure how much more effective the camos are than olive drab in areas with heavy green vegetation. Also, I just want to inform members from the UK and Commonwealth nations that virtually all of you guys misspell the word color. Same with the word fiber. Just sayin.

 

[MJ H]

Fibeur?

[Roger Caffin]

If I understand history correctly, the American language and people derive from the UK. That being the case, I suspect that it is the American language which has deviated from the original.
No matter.

Merry Xmas.

[Dave @ Oware]

Reading some of Lewis and Clark’s journal,  I got the impression spelling didn’t seem all that important back when the US and the UK split. There must be 5 ways to spell Mosquito. (And they must have seen a lot of them on the trip for how often they were mentioned).

English just borrows everyone else’s words anyway. I swear I could almost understand some of the German dialect around Hamburg, but not a word of a bloke from Birmingham.

[Roger Caffin]

There must be 5 ways to spell Mosquito.
Six? Skeeters.

but not a word of a bloke from Birmingham.
Try hard Cockney.

Merry Xmas

[MJ H]

I got the impression spelling didn’t seem all that important back when the US and the UK split.

That was the case, but Noah Webster picked the from among the various spellings when he wrote his dictionary. Webster was part of the revolutionary cohort and he picked the ‘simpler’ ones for political reasons (i.e. a republic doesn’t need aristocratic frippery like a ‘u’ in ‘color’).

[Author]

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