So I have a new Tent plan for 2021…input welcome

[Anthony H]

So in a previous post I was struggling over my perfect tent and after many days and restless nights and reading peoples replies I have another option I am pondering.  I do want a DCF tent but I might start saving and hopefully in 2021 there might be one coming down the road that will get my attention.  As for now I am really liking the TT StratoSpire 1 and its much more affordable and to be honest it checks off all the boxes that I’m really looking for, besides being DCF, as my perfect tent.  I reached out to Henry Spires the other day and ask him If there is one thing you do in the coming years is to offer a DCF version of the SS1 and I would preorder one now!  Being that I have trips planned for 2021, all on the west coast, I believe this will be a better weather performer (wind,rain,snow) and have much better livability and Versatility if caught in inclement weather.  Please feel free to comment If you have some experience with the SS1 or input that I should consider.  Thanks again you guys rock!

[Stumphges]

SS Li is a bit bigger than SS1 , but 28 ounces all in. Just get that.

[Alexander L]

I really don’t understand why Tarptent could not make the SS Li (at least) 50″ wide instead of 45″ to fit two 25″ pads. Weight would be negligible and I don’t see any technical reason why they could not do it. Otherwise it would be perfect for me. Those 5″ are a deal breaker.

[Stumphges]

Alexander, I read it was a matter of DCF roll width. Deal breaker 4 me too, but it’s a palatial 1p shelter and, by the same token, only a couple ounces heavier than a 1p would be.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

My tent “plan” was not really a plan but just “happened to happen”. First had a TT Moment DW with the “solid” interior & optional crossing pole for winter use.

Then I decided I needed an even lighter 1 person tent so I got a TT Notch Li with “solid” interior”(at 21 oz.)  for 3 season use in the mountain west. Not as much width as the Moment DW but “doable” for me.

So, without planning, two tents is my “plan”

[Anthony H]

Yeah I’m still really leaning heavily toward the TT Aeon Li as a tent I really want.  It’s hard to pass up such a great solo tent with some livability and tons of features in a sub 1 Pound package.  This would put my big 3 items under 5 pounds and that’s huge.  I can always look for a good Double wall tent for winter backpacking next year but this should fit the bill on handling all my 3 season backpacking needs.

[M B]

My reasons for loving cuben shelters:

stuffing silnylon is like trying to wrestle an octopus.

No sag in rain

 

My  reasons for disliking cuben  shelters:

Fragile

Relatively short life cycle

Snow and sleet stick to them much worse than might think … Requires knocking off.

Sun penetrates and makes HOT in day

Nearly see thru if others are around

expensive

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jscott]

Aeon Li with stakes–19 ounces

Notch Li with stakes–21 ounces

but I get that the Aeon is larger. the Notch probably has more vestibule space–?–so stuff could go out there, making it roomier. I only spend time in my tent at night sleeping, so I don’t care that much about interior space. But in an extended storm, it’s nice to have room.

But I’d rather have the Notch in an extended storm–double wall, a bit more solid with two poles, and arguably more wind resistant.

[David U]

I would like to see empirical evidence that puts the Notch Li over the Aeon in windy conditions.  It isn’t like either of these are for windy, above treeline conditions.  Can they be used in those conditions?  Absolutely.  Is one going to be better than the other?  Not likely.  Peg either out, use additional peg out points, and rocks.

With respect to condensation resistance, cuben is remarkable in that regard, rendering the necessity of double walls moot (IMHO).

[jscott]

Well, the first night I spent in a Zpacks Hexamid solo turned into a raging storm. I was surprised to find a constant mist coming off the single wall and down onto me inside the tent. This was condensation mist forced off the wall by the hard rain and wind outside. It ended up not being an issue but I hadn’t experienced this in my double wall tents. A rare occurrence perhaps.

I’m really just repeating what some others have said about the Notch being better in winds. Looking at the design, that would seem likely. the Aeon has several large panels–a lot like my Hexamid–that seem more likely to present a face to winds than the more angled Notch. I could be wrong.

As I’ve said,both of these tents look fantastic to my eyes.

[M B]

“Well, the first night I spent in a Zpacks Hexamid solo turned into a raging storm. I was surprised to find a constant mist coming off the single wall and down onto me inside the tent. This was condensation mist forced off the wall by the hard rain and wind outside. It ended up not being an issue but I hadn’t experienced this in my double wall tents. A rare occurrence perhaps.”

 

 

Nothing rare about it at all.

If it’s cold, and you’re breathing nice moist air out,….ta da…. condensation.

 

Cold rain makes a shelter canopy quite cold and an excellent condenser.

 

0.77 is less conductive than 0.51….. and may form less condensation in my experiences.  Or it could have been something else.  But yeah in a 0.51 shelter I’ve had a lot of misting going on inside to where I actually used an xtra groundsheet (brought for sleeping in AT shelters, to cover up my sleeping bag in a cold rainstorm

 

 

[jscott]

MB, I had to cover my bag too. The rain was near freezing; it was snowing two hundred feet higher.

[M B]

Worst conditions. Everything gets damp.

[Philip Tschersich]

One thing I notice with these TT shelters that have the A-frame carbon strut corners is what a negative effect that has on the stake holding power. The adjustable line coming down off the apex of the A-frame is at a steep angle and requires a very shallow-angled stake insertion. They basically require backing up with some rocks to hold the stake in windy conditions. Once you have rocks on all corners I think all of these TT shelters will do okay in wind, but I didn’t worry about stake placement and backup nearly as much with my MLD ‘mids thanks to their shallow guy line angles and truly adjustable lengths. Whether or not a cuben shelter survives a storm has a lot to do with how well it’s anchored to the ground and whether those anchor points are well integrated to the canopy to distribute stress.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Phillip,

I agree that guying and staking is highly important for nailing down tents in a storm.

That said tent design is highly important in handling wind. Hence the proliferation of tunnel and dome tents for mountaineering.

Having been in my highly staked and guyed TT Moment DW in steady 40 mph winds with a few gusts to 60 mph and the tent was just fine. (Local weather report on wind data) It was set up with the end into the wind so it was aerodynamically in its best position.

I would never try that with a wall tent or A-frame tent.

[Philip Tschersich]

Haha, another perfect example of ymmv. I sold my TT Moment after experiencing just such a night because of its poor wind performance. That giant cone-shaped wind ramp nearly beat me to death during the night. I had even supported the upwind panel with a trekking pole raised guy line. The stakes all held (thanks to lots of rocks), the shelter just flexed and deformed too much for my taste. You can see the pitch at 7:17 in this video: Hiking from Old Harbor to Kodiak

 

[David U]

“I would never try that with a wall tent or A-frame tent.”

If you effectively stake down an A-frame configuration, you can withstand some pretty major wind.  It all depends on the number of stake out points.  There is an excellent article by Ryan Jordan that is probably 15 years old (I couldn’t find it) that discusses effective performance in the wind with minimalist shelters.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

> I sold my TT Moment after experiencing just such a night because of its poor wind performance.

Your Moment DW is/was a 2013 model and I will say that the Moment DW has evolved a long way since then. Changes include a change to a stiffer/stronger 9 mm arch pole, much lower fly edge, perimeter hem pull outs, vents moved to the top of the zippers (so they don’t catch as much wind), and dual arch sleeve pullouts both sides to really lock the arch geometry as needed. Yes, with the minimal 2-stake setup the Moment DW still wont fair well in strong winds but now if you take advantage of all the pullouts it will do very well in strong winds.

-H

[Jon Solomon]

The Aeon Li is really strong on three sides because of the pitchlocs. It is stronger than a simple Mid design in my experience. I had it in moderate winds on an exposed ridge and it didn’t budge at all, whereas a Mid would have experienced some deflection.

The front is weaker because it’s harder to get the door panels consistently taut on both sides. In strong winds I use a second guyline from the apex, creating a very strong triangle with two guylines from the apex to the ground.

I’ve had no problems with the stakes on the lines coming off pitchlocs but the ti stakes I use are on the beefier side of the scale.

[Philip Tschersich]

Interesting, thanks for weighing in, Henry. Glad to hear you guys are always tweaking and improving. You guys definitely have the most advanced and diverse shelter designs at this point, and I’m really glad you gave in to Cuben. :^)

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“One thing I notice with these TT shelters that have the A-frame carbon strut corners is what a negative effect that has on the stake holding power.”

Indeed there is that upward pull, but another part of it is the leverage. The way the pitchloc corners are commonly shown, the strut is about twice as long as the distance that the stake it out from the body, which creates 2:1 leverage on the stake.

The leverage from a strut is going to work like this:

Where PitchLoc corners are commonly set up at about 2:1 leverage, but can be extended to reduce that closer to 1:1:

So a setup like this is going to be fairly hard on stakes due a lot of leverage (as Franco notes) combined with a very upward pull:

Whereas a setup like this is going to be quite a bit gentler on the stakes but gives up the smaller footprint advantage of using struts. Anytime struts are used to reduce the size of the footprint, it’s likely adding leverage on the stakes.

[Anthony H]

Interesting point Dan.  Has there been any problems/complaints from people with TT shelters with the pitch lock corners having staking issues?  I’m really looking at getting a DCF tent next year and I’m really considering the TT Aeon Li for my solo UL backpacking adventures.  This could change though if something comes along next year that really changes my mind.  Thanks for the input as always.

[Todd T]

Has there been any problems/complaints from people with TT shelters with the pitch lock corners having staking issues?

My Notch tore a stake out of the ground once in a moderately high wind.  I switched the end stakes (the ones on the pitchlocs) to 8-inchers and haven’t had any issues since.

[jscott]

In the Sierra at altitude the soil tends to be very thin, or non existent. I usually anchor my stakes with rocks–often, a small mound of rocks. there’s always a ton around.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I don’t really see it as an issue – just something to be aware of. 90% of the time it’s not a factor (e.g. low-moderate winds) and when it is, you could mitigate it by using bigger stakes, extending the cord to reduce leverage, or having that side on the lee side. It’s more an issue in unexperienced hands.

Then again, I’ve never heard anyone else talk about this so quite likely almost all users are unaware of the potential for leverage issues. I noticed it on the PCT in windy SoCal when I started to ponder when it was always the PitchLoc corners of my SS2 that would rip out first. Arguably it would be an improvement if the tents came stock with longer cords as Hilleberg does when they use struts. But then the footprint advantage of using struts is lost, which doesn’t leave much of a rationale for using struts because struts are at least as heavy as the fabric being trimmed off (compared to the same design but with fabric extending out where the struts currently trim it off).

[Author]

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