Slingfin NFT

[Duane Hall]

Does anyone have field experience with the new Slingfin NFT? This looks like a nice piece of kit.

[Matthew / BPL]

Ryan Jordan talked enthusiastically about the NFT in the recent Q&A here a few weeks ago. He starts talking about flat tarps around 7:30.

[Duane Hall]

Thanks Matthew.  This link was just what I was looking for.

[Chris K]

Duane – I picked one up just before Ryan mentioned it, so I was heartened by his endorsement. No field experience yet but lots of backyard tinkering in rain, hail, wind and heavy morning dew.

Initial impressions are that it meets expectations of a well-made large silnylon tarp. It’s well thought-out and strong.

The guyline lengths, two tensioners per line, and provided stakes and extra lines are all excellent.

I do find the tensioner attached to the tarp to slip under tension. To get around this, I put a bight in the line and continue tensioning from the second bit of hardware at the end of the guyline.

It sags when wet and billows when windy–unless staked out extensively. But it’s a rather large tarp, so this is not a big surprise.

Here are some pictures. That last image is supposed to be a video but it won’t play for some reason. Anywho, it’s raining :)

I look forward to using it in the backcountry soon. I wanted something I could sleep under and use as a group tarp. I may still try a silpoly 7 x 9 to compare…

[Duane Hall]

Thanks Chris, this is very useful. I must admit I was hoping for minimal sag with this tarp. As to the slipping tensioner , I wonder if a 2mm guyline would prevent this.

[Chris K]

I admit I don’t have a lot to compare it to, having only used smaller silpoly tarps in the recent past. Maybe this is as good as silnylon gets? It certainly feels strong. And again, when staked out in the right places sag can be mitigated.

[Paul S]

We are new to tarps. We got the NFT because we wanted a place to sit/cook and eat when the weather’s bad. It seemed like it would be less claustrophobic than being cooped-up in our tent. Plus, we don’t want to attract Bears to our tent due to food smells. The NFT is light, packs-up small, has large coverage area, and has nice lineloc features. We are pleased so far!

[Dan]

I have to admit that when I first saw the title of the thread, I thought it was strange for a shelter company to issue an NFT.

[Nicholas P]

Dan – what about a non- fungible tarp , what it might lack in practicality it would surely make up for in weight savings.

[Sam Farrington]

Previously, I ordered another Sling Fin tarp, and checked out the performance of the fabric.  While only 10 denier gave me some pause about fabric strength, wanted to see how the 10D performed, compared to polyester and nylon.  The manufacturer states:

“Our 10D NY66 ripstop sil/sil fabric is perfect for the NFT. It has already been field-proven in our Portal, SplitWing, and 2Lite. It’s ludicrously packable, has a terrific strength-to-weight ratio, absorbs less water (and sags less) than PU-coated fabrics, and has astounding UV resistance.”

Unfortunately, even though the sil coated 6.6 nylon fabric was initially more resistant than others to water absorption and sagging, after over 10 hours, the sagging was greater than the many 20D nylons previously tested.  This may be because of the lighter weight.  We have had much heavier rainfall this spring, and while the fabric was not subjected to direct pouring rain, the humidity was extreme.

Nylon, including sil coated nylon, is a super fabric in dry weather; however it is protection in rain storms, including severe storms, that is the main object of backpacking a tent.  For me, sagging and flapping in severe weather is  something to be avoided; so will stick with polyester.  Although polyester is a very general term, so each fabric must be tested.

[Duane Hall]

Thanks Sam.  This is exactly the sort of thing I need to hear.  Your point about rain protection being the main object of backpacking a tent (tarp in this case) is well taken.  I don’t like sagging and flapping in severe weather either.  I don’t carry a backpacking shelter for perfect conditions :)

[Sam Farrington]

Am posting again because of uncertainty about the NFT fabric.  Unlike others, I’d be willing to pay the $220 to use the material for a solo tent, which is not overly crazy considering the price of DCF.  If the NFT fabric is as good as some suggest, it would make a great tent.

But the comments from Chris K and others do not seem very consistent.  Such as, “It sags when wet and billows when windy,” compared to photos that show no sag during an overnight rainstorm.  So not sure, but have to be guided by my own experience with the same 10D fabric, albeit on another Slingfin tarp.  When tautly secured in a 9″ diameter plastic embroidery loop, it was placed under a deck in  a rain and ice storm; so was affected only by a few drops through the deck, the cold, and the ambient humidity, which was very high.  While it held up well for a few hours, when I checked it the next day, with the storm unabated, the fabric had greatly loosened in the the loop, by approximately 1.5″ deflection in the center.

I’ve done similar tests with a number of other nylon fabrics in the one oz/sq/yd range, and they all sagged regardless of whether the fabric was coated with polyurethane or silicone coatings.  So think it is the nylon, not the coatings that is the problem, albeit granted, the Dupont 6.6 nylon probably sags, or expands, somewhat less.

Among the polyester fabrics, including RBTR and Dutchware silpolys, I’ve not seen any sagging in all kinds of weather, weights being consistently 1.24 oz/sq/yd for the RBTR and from 1.12 to 1.17 oz/sq/yd for the Dutchware. (I’ve not found the ‘membrane’ products reliably strong or waterproof.) That is not a criticism, as fabric weights are bound to vary, even for the same product, and as a practical matter, it is up to the tentmaker to test fabric weights before use in a shelter.

Would love to use lighter fabric for a tent if sure that it would remain taut as well as durable; but that just doesn’t seem to be the case for nylon, not to mention, DCF.  So intend to explore other avenues to lower weight.  This will add up to around a quarter oz per sq. yard; but will produce a solo tent that is a lot more reliable in severe weather.

Noted the comment about a tent being less cramped than a tarp in bad weather.  However, my experience has been that a well designed tent can be a lot less cramped than a tarp in any weather.  That’s at least one issue that for me needs no pondering.  But I’ve also sought lighter gear and applaud BPL for making these forums available.  Still, the bottom line has got to be having dry and reliable shelter in severe weather.  Thanks to all who have posted about this subject.

[Charlie Brenneman]

Any recommendations on guyline lengths at each of these tie outs? Or which additional tie-outs should typically be used?

I read the NFT comes with 10ft peaks and 8ft corners. I just found a used Duomid, and that – as well as this tarp – makes me wonder how many lines I should bring attached to the tarp into the field. 16-17 seems like overkill.

I noticed in Ryan’s recent “how to pitch an UL tent” webinar the Khufu mid he has was covered in tie outs and guylines. It is also interesting to me how the new Mid 1 doesn’t seem to have as many (especially given it is an asymmetrical design).

[Chris K]

Charlie – if you’re wondering about the NFT, the pre-installed stock lines are great in terms of length and tie-ability – light without being a pain to tie knots with. Plenty long for tying off to natural anchors at a distance, and easy to tension with two tensioners per line. The tarp also comes with four additional 8′ lines, each with one tensioner.

Sam – I’m still learning about this tarp and material. When pitched in a rainy, humid environment — which is shocking to say that my backyard in Denver is such a place but that is the weather we’ve had this year — it does sag mid-panel after fully tensioned. This is under prolonged heavy rain over wet grass. Maybe my pictures/video didn’t accurately show this. When I’ve used it in the mountains below treeline, where the air and soil are much dryer compared to home even in storms, it seems to sag less.

So, I dunno. Still learning. Ryan’s demo in the recent webinar was really helpful. I plan to take the tarp on a variety of trips the rest of the year and will offer some feedback if it’s useful to anyone.

[Sam Farrington]

Chris,

Having determined that it is the nylon, not the coating, that expands when wet, it is difficult to see how a lighter nylon 10D could be less expansive than a nylon 20D.  If there is some magic with the 10D, say for example a mini ripstop poly or even dyneema thread involved, that might tell a different story.  However, there is no information from the manufacturer to suggest that.

Note that the 7D 6.6 nylon ripstop offered by RBTR was greeted with great hopes until several MYOG folks reported the fabric to be even more sagging than slightly heavier nylons.  Sorry, don’t have a link for that on BPL due to time constraints, but my recollection is clear.

Bottom line, I think we need some solid evidence from the manufacturers that the issues with nylon have been overcome.  I would love to make a nylon tent without those issues because of the greater strength, lightweight and durability, but just don’t see any evidence of that.  Lacking a fabric lab, and the expertise that goes with it, I had to settle for the loop tests before putting the great deal of time required by MYOG.  Maybe more information will come from some quarter, but until then, time is precious in the world of MYOG.

[Tuukka U]

I find the RSBTR 7D 6.6 to sag less than generic 20D silnylon. Similar to 30D 6.6 sold on ExtremTextil, but I might be biased cause I don’t understand why denier would affect sag. It’s not like a thinner denier somehow gives in easier to moisture.

[Monte Masterson]

I made this cat cut solo tarp (66″ head 54″ foot 9′ long) out of RSBTR 7D MTN silnylon 6.6 a couple of years ago and I’ve used it in the field about a dozen nights. It pitches drum tight when dry but moderate condensation up to rain makes it stretchy and somewhat wilt. However a good retightening does a lot to get it pretty taut again. The silnylon is very strong for its weight, still no matter how good the material it’s a 7D and with such a low thread count so it’s not going to perform as well as a quality 10D or higher sil/sil 6.6 nylon. I think for anything over a 4.75′ X 9′ flat tarp the 7D needs poles (like the Nordisk Lofoten).

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