Sleeping Pad Leak Near Baffle Weld

[J-L]

When I got to camp this weekend, I pitched my tent and inflated my Nemo Tensor Insulated. Then I went to have dinner, watch the sunset, and drink some tea. When it was time to go to bed, I noticed my Tensor already seemed a little deflated. I blew it back up, thinking it must be due to the temperature drop from the quickly cooling night. Well it quickly deflated on me, and I had to wake up about every hour through the night to blow it back up.

Before this trip, I last used my Tensor on another over-nighter and it worked great – comfortable, warm, no leaks. So somehow it developed a leak in between trips.

Using the soapy water method, I found two spots on the bottom of the pad that are giving off air bubbles. I took a picture of one of the spots after the water dried. I can hear air coming out, but I can’t see any hole. The bubbles were coming from the spot circled in red.

The other leaking spot is in a near identical location (right next to the baffle weld), but lower down on the pad. I also don’t see any hole there and I can’t hear this location leaking air, so I’m guessing it’s a much smaller leak.

What’s the chance of getting two leaks on a sleeping pad at these locations? I can patch them and hope for the best, but now I’m wondering if it’s a baffle-related issue and not an actual puncture. Some details:

• Pad was bought new in 2019
• It’s been used about 40-45 nights
• It’s always been used with either a foam pad underneath or with a Tyvek groundsheet
• I use a Exped Schnozzel to inflate it

[Chris R]

That’s similar to the leak on my Uberlite. That was leaking on both top and bottom of the welded edge seam. I’d always imagined that all the welds were done with some fancy CNC machine but maybe there’s a human element that allows for some chance of over heating a weld.

[J-L]

Thanks, Uberlite fails are a good point of comparison. That is beginning to confirm my suspicion that this isn’t a puncture related leak and instead related to materials, manufacturing, or design.

Nemo has a lifetime warranty so I’ll try going through that process. I don’t know if they’ll accept working on my pad though as it has quite a bit of discoloration on the top side.

[Alex H]

I have had 3 such leak, all at the welds.  First, I just don’t think the 20D fabric is sturdy enough and second, I have used mine in a Thermarest chair kit and I think it adds a bit more stress to those welds when in the chair.  Too damned bad as it is a really comfortable pad.  I fixed my leaks with dabs of seam grip.

[J-L]

I submitted a warranty claim to Nemo so we’ll see what they say. I can patch the leaks, but if this particular pad has baffle issues, then it’s only a matter of time until it starts leaking again.

Alex, maybe the 20D fabric is the issue. I have seen Geoff Caplan posting on here before about baffle and weld strength – how reliable welds are currently not possible on wispy fabrics – and that is why Sea to Summit uses the heavier fabric and coating that they do. My Sea to Summit Ultralight Insulated pad has at least 75 nights on it (likely more) and is still going. It’s not as quiet or as comfortable as my Tensor though.

[Dondo .]

That’s too bad about the welds leaking, John.  Hopefully, your night wasn’t too uncomfortable and that Nemo will do the right thing.

Based on past experience, I’m pretty wary of air pads.  But I can’t deny the comfort and so I keep on using them, hedging my bet a bit with enough ccf in my kit to provide some insulation and padding in case of air pad failure.

Recently, I bought a S2S women’s ultralight insulated regular (15 oz.) and used it on Groundhog Night (is that a thing?) in temperatures in the 20’s F combined with a Solite ccf pad.  By the numbers, I should have stayed warm (3.5 + 2.1=5.6 R-value) and I did.

The 40d bottom and claims of a superior welding technology (we’ll see) and your 75 nights give me some hope that this pad might be Dondo-proof.

Keep us posted as to your experience with Nemo.  Knowing that a company will stand behind it’s products can take some of the sting out of an occasional night on the ground.

[Chris K]

Exact same problem here, John, same location along the baffle. I’ve had three total – the first two leaks happened after my very first night using the pad! I repaired them using the provided little stickers, only to have another leak a few uses later. I plan to send it back under warranty and look at a different pad. Oh well, it is comfortable…

[J-L]

Chris – failure on the first night is really bad! That’s 3 of us now that have had leaks at the baffle edge. I was hoping my pad failure was a one-off.

Dondo – 15 oz for a S2S Women’s Ultralight Insulated Regular is a good weight. They list it at 16.9 oz, while the Men’s version of same length is listed at 15.1 oz. I’m planning a 30-day trip through the Sierra this summer (if conditions allow) and I’m thinking I should pack a foam pad backup, maybe a half or 3/4 length Exped Flexmat.

[Dondo .]

John, the one I have is 66″ in length, so you have to be OK with your feet hanging off when sleeping on your back.   Being mostly a side sleeper who curls up a bit, this wasn’t an issue for me.  The stuff sack/pump (1.5 oz) will be left behind because my Exped Schnozzle pumpsack  is so much quicker to use.  One bag of air and the pad is inflated.

Good idea about the ccf backup.  After several nights on the cold hard ground due to air pad failure, I won’t use an air pad without one.  I’ve never used the Exped Flexmat but have been curious about it.  What’s your impression of it?

 

[J-L]

I’m 5’6” so the S2S men’s small I have fits me perfectly :)

I’ve never used the Exped Flexmat and don’t own it. It’s just the lightest folding CCF pad on the market, even beating out Montbell. I expect it to be less comfortable than a Z Lite, but more comfortable than a 1/8” foam pad. That’s okay for me for a backup. Using a Z Lite under the Ultralight Insulated does greatly increase its comfort, so that would be an added bonus.

[Alex H]

After my Nemo failures I am now experimenting with my old Prolite XS on top of an 48″ Exped Flexmat Plus.  I have always used a CCF under any air mat.  2.5″ and R 4.6.  I have always used torso lengths except snow camping or really cold.  So far so good but the Flexmat does not pack well, so I have been carrying it on top of the pack.

[Chris K]

My theory is this type of leak is not due to puncture, or anything happening while laying flat on the pad, but rather due to high pressure focused on a spot when leaning on the pad with an elbow or knee. In my case, all three leaks are in the general elbow-area.

I share a tent with my daughter most trips and there’s a lot of maneuvering around, in and out of the tent. Even making adjustments or whatever in the night, propping myself up on an elbow or kneeling on the pad, puts a bunch of pressure on one focused spot and it over-stresses those little welds. That’s a theory anyway.

[Jerry Adams]

I think that putting my weight with my hand or elbow on my Thermarest prolite causes it to delaminate.  I’ve noticed that pattern – delamination there.

Now, I avoid that.  Too much weight on too small a surface area.  I put my hand off the pad to the side to hold myself up, then sit down on the pad – bigger surface area.

I think that would be a good idea for all pads

[J-L]

That’s possible – but I do not kneel on my pad and one of the leaks is closer to the bottom of the pad.

[J-L]

Thought I’d share an update. To my surprise, Nemo said they agreed with my findings and they shipped me a new pad for free. Once they received my old pad pad, it was about 10 or 12 days until the new one arrived.

[Gumbo]

Good to hear. I know Thermarest and Big A are similarly good at standing behind their pads.

[Michael B]

I’ve been fortunate with my BA pads (Q-core SL and AXL) to not have any baffle/leak issues. I am glad folks have good luck with the suppliers taking care of them.

[Stumphges]

Nemo Tensor baffle weld leaks are a thing. I’ve had them too, in a 2019 pad.

is there any indication that this issue has been fixed in pads created more recently?

[J-L]

Not that I can tell. From Nemo: “We received your gear and agree with your description of damage. We’re happy to cover this under warranty.” No mention of actually fixing the issue.

[Stumphges]

Thanks John, my Tensor Insulated is with them now. I imagine they will also send me a replacement, which is great, but I worry about the durability/integrity of these pads for long trips. My pad leaked from the 1st use and gradually got worse.

Clearly not everyone is having these issues, though – e.g. Ryan Jordan continues to sing the praises of the wide version.

I’m starting to seriously consider a short Prolite or Prolite Plus as worry-free replacement. My tensor required 6-8 refills per night on a recent winter trip, so I commandeered my dog’s Prolite Short and found I was quite comfortable without any insulation below my legs (apart from my quilt footbox) even down to a little below freezing. Certainly these pads are not as comfortable as the Tensor, but I noticed too that it was easier to prevent drafts into my quilt on the 1 inch Prolite as compared with the thick Tensor. I’m using a TR Vesper 20 quilt and it seems to interface better with thin pads than with thick ones. I’m sure this varies a lot depending on the quilt/pad attachment system.

[J-L]

I’m not actually sure what I’ll do with the replacement pad. It’s great that Nemo replaced it, but I’d rather it not leak at the baffle weld in the first place…

For long trips, I would not trust the Tensor again. Maybe okay for short trips. I am considering going back to Sea to Summit (whose Ultralight Insulated has been completely reliable for me, and for more nights than the Tensor!) or trying out an X-Lite again.

[Jeffrey H]

I am having this exact issue with a Therm-a-Rest pad. It’s probably 5 or 6 years old and not only have I camped with it more times than I can count I used it traveling and some at home during a season of back problems (I found it perfect to resolve the pain but eventually switched to using a Japanese futon – basically sleeping on the floor with a cotton pad).

My pad’s leaks are not just a few small holes though. Mine is leaking profusely across a whole section of baffles (12-16 if counting down from the top – top side of the pad). I’ve repaired it using some aqua seal, but now the baffles above and below the section I repaired are also leaking a bit.

Trying do decide if I should go pick up more aqua seal and try again or just send it to Therm-a-Rest for hopeful replacement. I thought I’d fixed it last time but I ended up on the ground in the middle of the night and had to re inflate multiple times. From what I’m reading here it’s in the baffles and will probably just keep spreading.

This photo is from a video I took before I repaired it last time. Hard to make out but all those bubbles are coming from the baffle lines on the pad. 

[JCH]

Not sure what vintage your pad is, but this is a common failure on early XLite pads…I had 2 fail identically. Personally, I would consider “5 or 6 years old and not only have I camped with it more times than I can count I used it traveling and some at home during a season of back problem” to be having gotten my money’s worth :)

Take a look at the new insulated Nemo Tensors and STS pads as replacements.

[Jason]

I had the same issue with a tensor pad, as well as the 2-3 replacements that Nemo sent me (and kept leaking).  I finally was able to just get a refund for the pad altogether.  They’re very comfortable, but way too risky for me.

After trying an Ether Light pad and finding it comfortable but too cold (too much air for my body to heat up all night I think), I switched to a Sea to Summit UL pad.  It’s not quite as comfy, but inflates super fast and has been very reliable.  The insulated version has kept me warm on quite a few trips.

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