Shelter entry/exit, sans contortions?

[DWR D]

Interesting that the Notch Li does not have that clip to relieve stress on the zipper. Nor does the Aeon Li…  So wondering if: a) they used stronger zippers in the Dynema tents? or b) those clips were an old design based on a concern that proved to not be a concern over the years… and they just never changed the design to reflect that…

[Mole J]

I don’t know! I do know it made it easier both opening ( obviously) and closing.

Will have to check exactly how next time I use it.

I think I sort of hold the loop taut back towards me, and place my finger on the centre of it and push away from me downwards. The push point then is closer to me a little.

I do have arms slightly longer than the average…

[SIMULACRA]

Yup, all possibilities there Bonzo

My TT Notch has a little clip down there that relieves the zipper of the brunt of the forces

My tent as well. I just leave mine attached, unzip and climb through. Not as big of a hassle as you’d think.

[SIMULACRA]

Jscott,

I believe the idea is to always keep it attached. Not to attach it when in use. Instead of a long flexible pull, a long rigid pull

[Sam Farrington]

Could this have anything to do with how hard or easy it is to open (or close) the zipper?  If so, there are zipper lubricants that can make a big difference, some of which are mentioned in these forums.  Also, I found that some old zippers bought from Warmlite years ago, just got tougher to pull after more than a decade in dry storage.  So much so, that I just bought new zips from Warmlite for the next tent project.  They are a better quality YKK and stronger than regular #3 YKK with a weight penalty of only .02 oz per running foot.

Agree about the attachments at the pulls; but nothing elaborate, just a short piece of bright yellow cord threaded though the hole in the pull, and joined at the ends with a stop knot.

Also, some manufacturers use waterproof or water resistant zippers that are a bear to open and close.  An outer flap will do to keep water out if there is a much narrower stiffened internal flap, sort of like the set up Montbell uses on its sleeping bags.

The silnylon that was mentioned stretches on the bias, and that can make unzipping more difficult, especially when the zipper seam has a cat-cut as in the OP’s diagram.  Also, the vestibule zipper seam should have no other curves, but just go straight up and down, albeit slanted to create coverage over the vestibule.  This will also prolong zipper life.

To reinforce the zipper connection at the zipper bottom, I use velcro.  It has plenty of shear strength, but you can slip your fingers under the closed vestibule edge and easily peel the connector open.  Velcro does weaken when it gets soaked, so some run it through a tape loop and back upon itself to strengthen the connection.  Or it can be installed inside the tent, which keeps the connector dryer and avoids having to fiddle with threading a connector loop.

And the vestibule design can allow the zipper to be kept open part way to increase ventilation when the lower  end of the flap(s) is tied back.  Another Velcro connector can be added part way up to protect the zipper from coming apart in high winds.  The connectors should be designed so that the Velcro tabs fold up and out of the way and adhere to themselves when not in use.

All of the above can make zipping and unzipping much less of a contortion.

[jscott]

“Jscott,

I believe the idea is to always keep it attached. Not to attach it when in use. Instead of a long flexible pull, a long rigid pull”

Yep, that makes sense.  I was attempting to be funny. Still…being clumsy, I can imagine the pole easily becoming detached as I shuffle around arranging things in my tent before sleep.

I’m not going to carry a rigid pole with one function that can be performed perfectly well–if a bit awkwardly–by reaching out my hand. I won’t carry a fan either, even when it’s hot. (altho, come to think of it…).

[Todd T]

My tent as well. I just leave mine attached, unzip and climb through. Not as big of a hassle as you’d think.

I barely fit through the door with the flap pulled all the way back and Crisco spread on my whole body.

[SIMULACRA]

You bring Crisco?! nice.. Well, every tent and person is made different.  I think what I’ll do, and I feel Jscott will agree.. is attach a remote control. (I kid)

Now as far as my postulation goes, attaching what I posed as a far fetched idea by using a thin, lightweight 5″-ish wand, like rod, could possibly be called innovation. Something this entire website is all about. Nothing I said, would work, but would try out.  But that’s what great minds do. Brainstorm, think of ideas what no one else does. I digress

[john hansford]

Do we need to close the zip completely? A bit of ventilation is always good, so leave 6” or more undone.

I sometimes use a long cord that runs from the end of the door round the stake (or a loop attached to the stake), and back to the pole, and leave the zip completely undone.

[Alex Wallace]

Fulcrum! A length of cord tied to zipper that is routed through the head of a shepherd hook stake, which is placed inline with the zipper’s path, that when pulled up, pulls the zipper down towards the ground. Okay, I’m mostly joking, but I bet it would work if the stake was really nailed down and the zipper runs smoothly.

 

[jscott]

You could also rig a small electrical engine, like from a drone, onto a spool that would wind the string attached to zipper and that runs over the fulcrum. Of course then you’d need to carry something to charge the electric engine. A large solar panel might do the trick. Or you could rig up a hand charging device using an eggbeater.

Then, you’d still need a second device to close the tent door. Hmmmm…

[Bonzo]

Alex nailed it…we just need a second fulcrum to create a trolley system that runs from the head to the foot of the zipper.  Imagine a triangle where the zipper is the long side/hypotenuse, and the other two sides are a slack, connecting curve.  Pull the top of the trolley line downwards and the zipper goes up; pull the bottom of the trolley line towards you and the zipper goes down.  Stake in the ground at the bottom, as suggested, small loop around the trekking pole basket at the top for the upper fulcrum, extra guy line for the trolley.  Done.  You could add a third point near the door just to make it even more convenient: as long as the stakes hold, you’re good to go.  Brilliant thought, Alex!

[jscott]

Yeah, and setting all this up in a way that didn’t interfere with entering or exiting the tent, especially on stony ground with thin soil, would be far easier than opening the tent door with your hand…

Think of how impressed your wife or husband will be!

[Bonzo]

Yeah, and setting all this up in a way that didn’t interfere with entering or exiting the tent, especially on stony ground with thin soil, would be far easier than opening the tent door with your hand…

Don’t step on the cord.

Think of how impressed your wife or husband will be!

Yes, my partner was pretty impressed with Alex’s solution.  Limited mobility from trauma has a way of making these kind of situations snuggly slightly more relevant to us than they are to the average bear.

 

[Bob Kerner]

I’m with Kevin. At 6 ft 2, bending over and crawling into my TT Moment was THE leading cause for me to transition to a hammock. I was tired of crawling into my own coffin at night.

[HkNewman]

Thinking about this, that’s probably one of the reasons the major players went with hoop tents and the like …  the rounded dimensions can present a more vertical wall.   Most any sort of mid or A-frame will have an angle at the door/walls.

Everytime I bring up contortions, younger hikers bring up the point of me buying a Z-packs Altimid.  The extra height should work.

Speaking of which I read about the Kiui Summit Star 1 at a 51 inch peak height coming in at 15 oz for the 15D sil nylon fly and 10.5 for the nesting inner.  Looks like a neat 1 trekking pole design with the foot held up by a shorter stick. Wonder why anyone hasn’t done something similar with a 0.5 DCF fly?

[SIMULACRA]

Well done fellows! All innovative ideas..

Had a chance to actually field test and found that the rigid tube was really just marginally better than the extended pull cord in usability. Although it did push down well, I found that I was more concerned with reaching the pull to open, than needing something longer to close the zipper fully. I’ve opted to just stick with the longer cord by itself as it adds less complication. YMMV..

[JCH]

Pretty sure I’m going to be in the minority here, but I prefer a 2P shelter with relatively shallow vestibules…helps mitigate the increased width of the footprint.  All gear is in the tent with me, only thing left outside are dirty or wet shoes and maybe wet rain gear.  I’m 6’1″ so that helps me deal with reaching, plus my Duplex just has the door clip…no zippers.  The reach to zipper on my XMid 2P doesn’t seem to be a problem…probably my height helps.

[Bonzo]

All gear is in the tent with me, only thing left outside are dirty or wet shoes and maybe wet rain gear.

We don’t usually have enough room in the tent itself for that kind of arrangement…and we certainly don’t have enough room when puppy comes along.  She doesn’t even fit on a sleeping pad when she stretches out; it’s like having a third person in the tent, except then even 3P shelters aren’t large enough.  I think I’m just going to have to get her a tent of her own and teach her to sleep in it.

[AK Granola]

I have read this entire thread, and still don’t understand what the problem is. Maybe I just don’t have the problem. I have found it super easy to get in and out of the Tarptent Notch Li, and the zippers easy to work, even when very taut. I do leave a bit of footprint plastic sticking into the vestibule, so that I can kneel on it when getting out. The only thing I find a bit flaky is the magnet door tieback. It sometimes doesn’t stick the first time, so I have to feel around for it to get it to stay secure.

[jscott]

I was trying to channel Rube Goldberg for comedy, but it didn’t work. I do like Simulacra’s solution, but that didn’t seem to work either.

I guess of all the things I suffer through for backpacking–altho I never think of it as suffering–zipping the tent ranks really low. It can be awkward. But for me it only lasts several seconds. Coming down off a pass when my feet are feeling pain can last hours.

For others, this is more of an issue. I apologize if I didn’t take that seriously. Now I do.

[JCH]

I have found it super easy to get in and out of the Tarptent Notch Li,

The Notch is a great example of a well designed shelter with relatively shallow vestibules.  My favorite 1P shelter, I also found ingress/egress very easy…it’s a shame I don’t like 1P shelters :)

Discussion of a long reach to complete the vestibule closure reminds me of Bob Moulder’s efforts to solve a similar Duplex door closure “problem”.  His work was very interesting and it’s small added complexity was likely worth it for anyone sufficiently bothered by the “problem”.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

My tarp doors do not have zippers. Just a loop that hooks into a mitten hook. It’s hard to reach and those mitten hooks are really hard to operate. I will probably cut off the little bit that closes the mitten hook. I only really need the hook part. But I will still not be able to reach. A small extra piece of tyvek will allow me to crawl out there to unhook it.

[Geoff Caplan]

I’m with Mina – when it comes to shelters, ease of entry and exit is a very low priority for me.

This is something I’m doing maybe 3-4 times a day and for maybe 10 seconds at a time.

Weight, storm-resistance, sheltered vestibule, ease of pitching and venting – these are significant issues for any shelter in UK/Alpine conditions.

Having to make a slightly awkward stretch to get in and out – not so much (unless you are having to cope with some kind of disability, obviously).

People in the West pay fortunes in gym subscriptions, but judging by the shelter reviews I’ve seen here on BPL they give a very high priority to avoiding any kind of exercise while getting in and out of their shelters. I’m getting on a bit myself but until I came here I literally never gave this issue a moment’s thought. Am I missing something?

[Scott H]

I have the REI flash air 2 for lightweight and the Marmot Limelight 3 for car camping.  Both have the same issue you have to reach out and unzip the fly.  The flash air has thought me not to close the vestibule unless you need to.  With that said, I open my mesh turn so I can put my shoes on then I can slide foreword sitting inside the tent and unzip the vestibule.

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