Shell Game: Wind and Rain Jacket Breathability Tests vs. Trail Performance

[Severin S]

Hey Bill,
Thanks for the great article, what year is your Arcteryx Squamish? People seem to have numbers all over the place for the CFM for that one, seems year/batch dependent.

[Scott Emmens]

Bill, here is an example of a commercially available, waterproof breathable jacket with mesh backed chest pockets AND forearm vents. This is a cycling specific garment made with Pertex Shield.

https://www.groundeffect.co.nz/collections/waterproof-shells/products/anti-cyclone-performance-cycling-jacket

 

Cheers, Scott

[Terran Terran]

I’d lower the pockets and cut out the mesh. If I’m not wearing gloves, I want to warm my hands up. Mesh isn’t very warm. There’s no insulation. Anything that I put in the pockets of a raincoat gets “lost” when I take the coat off unless I remember to transfer it. I want to reach through my pockets to where I’m usually wearing a hoodie underneath. If it’s too warm for a hoodie, if it’s warm rain, I’ll take my shirt off to keep it dry and just get wet.

[Bill Budney]

Severin: I’m glad you asked. The Squamish was not mine — I included it because it is a classic and one of the reviewers really likes his when working hard. In checking the data, it turns out that the numbers I listed (3420 MVTR, 29 CFM) were for a 2017 jacket. The 2019 version scored 2580 and 11 — substantially different. The newer model might do a better job of slowing wind, but has substantially lower MVTR than the older model. I did not test a recent Squamish because other windshirts were closer to the high MVTR/moderate CFM sweet spot that I sought. On the other hand, if you already own one and like it, then there is no reason to change. Also, the Squamish has more ventilation features than most lightweight windshirts. Reportedly snug fit.

Scott: That’s a cool jacket, thanks for linking. It’s great that it rolls into a lumbar pack. My favorite rain jacket when I cycled a lot did that. It’s great on a road bike that may not have a lot of luggage space — If I rode hard enough, all I needed was that jacket and a water bottle for shorter rides, down to below freezing. As you know, ventilation requirements are different for cycling than for walking, and this jacket looks great for cycling. It had better be for that price. :)

Terran: I can see that mesh or pass-through “pockets” are an individual choice. I agree that I generally prefer pass-through “pockets” rather than no pockets at all (in a shell) (although I’m personally fine with mesh-backed pockets).

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

I put my pockets inside.  Same location as that ground effect jacket, over the chest.

To get to my pockets, I have to unzip my jacket.  Then, the pockets are totally dry.

With outside pockets, even if the zipper is waterproof, when you open the pockets to get inside, water dribbles in.

[Scott Emmens]

“Scott: That’s a cool jacket, thanks for linking. It’s great that it rolls into a lumbar pack. My favorite rain jacket when I cycled a lot did that. It’s great on a road bike that may not have a lot of luggage space — If I rode hard enough, all I needed was that jacket and a water bottle for shorter rides, down to below freezing. As you know, ventilation requirements are different for cycling than for walking, and this jacket looks great for cycling. It had better be for that price. :)”

Yes the “bumbag” is an important feature in our range. We have been making mountain biking specific garments for 30 years this year.

Re the price it IS expensive but I suggest you are looking at it with US dollars eyes. It works out at $283 USD (NZ prices include tax, unlike MSRP prices in the US) so comparable with the Outdoor Research Micro Gravity Ascentshell jacket.

Anyhoo, cheers, Scott

[Terran Terran]

Of course I can only speak of my experience. If I unzip my jacket, water comes in. With lower pockets, my core doesn’t get wet. The cycling jacket looks nice, but looks like it’s made for cycling. I guess it’s case specific. I do have a lighter Pertex Shield jacket with no pockets.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

@Bill:

when you say “runs 1 (or 2) sizes small”, are you talking only about girth (to vent and fit over layers), or about overall garment size, ie both girth and length?

If it’s the former, I’m very interested!

[Bill Budney]

Which jacket? Most are easily returnable if they don’t fit. When it comes to fit, trying it is the best way to be sure.

[AK Granola]

I have a Lightheart Gear rain jacket and a Zpacks Vertice rain jacket. Expensive lightweight rain gear, and one is so, so, so much better than the other. By the price tag, you can probably guess. I’ve worn each of these jackets while hiking in downpours, extended hours of steady rain, and light drizzles. In the Lightheart Gear jacket, I’m sweaty and wet on the inside in a matter of minutes, even at 50F, even with pit zips and main zipper opened up. The thing just makes me really hot and sweaty, no matter what. Honestly it just doesn’t cut it. I’m not sure what I’ll do with it.

The Zpacks jacket OTOH has been excellent. It will get hot and sweaty inside if everything is zipped up, but with the ventilation, I’ve stayed mostly dry hiking in Ireland on top of a “mountain,” for many hours. I recently hiked in Denali and stayed totally dry in that jacket. I used it in Montana along the CDT and it kept me mostly dry. Higher humidity and I get damp of course, everything does, but not sopping wet.  Was it worth the insane price? If it lasts a  good while, I’d say yes.

[Bill Budney]

Thanks for that report, AK. I’m OK with a waterproof poncho that goes over the pack, but I have never understood how people can stand to have waterproof fabric pressed against back and chest by a pack and shoulder straps. Somehow their mileage varies from mine.

I like my Visp, which I assume is similar to your Vertice.

In Poncho News (and a small update to the article):

1) I finally bought a Packa. It is even better than anticipated — a truly well-evolved mountain poncho that you can purchase. The cuffs are wide and cinchable (a better design than elastic or velcro — open for ventilation, snug for protection). The pit zips are long — I can put my arms through them and wear the Packa like a giant vest. Combined with the front zipper, the pit zips allow flow-through ventilation that is hard to achieve with most regular ponchos. The cut is “just right” — with room for air movement underneath, but doesn’t flop around in the wind. It attaches to the pack like a pack cover or can be pulled off if you want to drop the pack while keeping the Packa on — doing so is awkward, but possible. The hood is multi-adjustable and works well. Materials and finish are excellent.

2) Liteway introduced a new front-zippered Poncho Pyraomm. It appears to be a similar concept to SMD’s Gatewood Cape, both of which convert to small, strong, shelters. The Poncho Pyraomm is listed as being about 8″ longer and wider than the Gatewood Cape, which may work better as a shelter for some people. Poncho Pyraomm is slightly heavier and more expensive — tradeoffs.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Last Saturday I really noticed the venting of cuffs. It was about 60 F, moderate rain and we were riding bikes at a slow speed and fairly low effort (end of a 100 mile day).

I could feel the cold air moving up my sleeves. Of course, on the gravel bike, arms are aimed forward, and speeds are higher than hiking, so it really blew up the sleeves.
In fact, before our break, I had only my rain  jacket over my bike jersey , as it had been warm (~80 F and sunny) before, and I was cold, so I closed the cuffs as well as other vents.

During the break for the worst of the storm, I dug out my PT Alpha hoody, and layered that under the jacket. Near the end of the ride, the rain eased, the grade turned to uphill and I got a bit warm, so I pieced the  up, along with torso zips and top and bottom of main zip.

 

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

@Bill,

you wrote:

”

Notably too-slim fits:

Outdoor Vitals Nebo Windbreaker – two sizes small
Dooy Sun Shirt – two sizes small
MontBell Versalite – one size small (probably Tachyon, too.)
Gore Wear Gore-Tex ShakeDry R7 Trail Hooded Jacket – one size small”

When you say something runs X sizes small, do you mean it runs X sizes too tight (what you say at the start), or that it runs X sizes small overal (ie too tight AND too short).

[Bill Budney]

Yes, I love loose cuffs for ventilation. I would like to see very loose sleeves, like “wizard sleeves”.

I use “size” the same way the manufacturers use it: Primarily chest size, with other measurements proportional.

Length (tall sizes) are a different measurement. I have a long torso and short arms, so nothing is ever the right length for me. :)

[Jerry Adams]

I make my own jacket so I can make the sleeves and body loose for better ventilation.  Another reason for making your own.

[Jason Brooks]

What about Buffalo Systems or Paramo? I once had a Patagonia Infurno jacket with a silicone impregnated shell that never wetted out and a pile liner that always kept a warm dry layer next to my skin if I was moving. It was the most functional rain gear I’ve ever had even though it wasn’t marketed as such.

[Bill Budney]

I didn’t test Buffalo or Paramo because their pseudo-“scientific” marketing mumbo-jumbo didn’t justify the high price and weight. I remain curious but also skeptical. I couldn’t find any reviews that felt “authoritative” on the subject. Mostly I found fans who seemed to want to justify the price that they paid, but hard information is hard to come by. It’s an expensive experiment with essentially zero facts supporting it (seemingly low probability of success).

Also, the system appears to depend on DWR to function. As discussed in the article, I haven’t found any DWR that survives thirty minutes of heavy rain.

I seem to recall Buffalo having lighter-weight shirts (although still heavy compared to the rest of the tested jackets), but they don’t have a full zipper. I’ve never been a fan of anoraks, although I know that some people like them.

I have, however, enjoyed a good wind breaker over an absorbent shirt many times in light rain, as you suggest. If the rain becomes more serious, then I add a poncho over the top.

So the concept may work in some weather, although I’m not persuaded that Paramo’s and Buffalo’s products are the optimal way to get there.

Disclaimer: The above is an opinion based on lack of factual information. It is subject to change if solid information becomes available.

EDIT: One idea that I have not tried is two layers of windbreakers. The hypothesis is that the outer layer breaks the speed (and pressure) of the rain drop, and reduces the speed of water ingress, which may allow the inner DWR-treated windshirt to delay wet-out. This idea, of course, is not appropriate for warm weather due to the extra layer. Of course, the same can be said of Buffalo and Paramo.

[Mark Verber]

I briefly tried friends’ Buffalo and Paramo but never owned them.  The people I know who had these items loved them, and it think it was more than sunk cost.  I first learned about them from MichaelO  writeup from the days of the backpackinglight yahoo group.

I typically run hot and found that a separate shell and mid worked better for me.  I did own a Rab’s Vapour Rise shells which worked pretty well when highly active in cold weather.

The best system I ever used for regular rain with high abrasion was a grid fleece or heavy base + EPIC shell.  These days I would do alpha direct + EPIC.  Was warm enough, and mostly dry.

my notes about soft shells.

[Jerry Adams]

it seems like a fleece jacket with a lightweight outer jacket would be like buffalo or paramo, same physics

[Bill Budney]

Jerry: Yep.

Mark: Yes, the separate shell+fleece seems to approximate Paramo/Buffalo with more flexibility.

You mentioned EPIC — is it available anymore? I seem to have missed it. I do have a Patagonia L4 that may be silicone-encapsulated, although Stephen thought that it looked different than EPIC under his microscope. In any case, the L4 is good in the rain, but isn’t very breathable. Outdry works better for me, and is much more waterproof as well (maybe ShakeDry, too, if it were more available).

[Jerry Adams]

I had an epic jacket which worked for a while, but then it started getting wetted out.

I wear Wool socks with breathable nylon gaiters.  That sort of works like paramo also.  The socks don’t get wet.  Until I walk through a stream

[Mark Verber]

Bill:  I haven’t tracked down who is making epic jackets these days.  I have heard that L4 isn’t as breathable as the earlier EPIC used by Patagonia in the 2oox . Most of my trips these days don’t have serious abrasive conditions, so I can get away with using a shakedry shell which is the best option in my experience.

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