Self-Arrest Tools for Steep Icy/Snowy Slopes

[Roger Caffin]

Could be useful for digging cat holes? A Ti trowel would be lighter though.

Yeah, a dud.

Cheers

[jscott]

What…my Ti cat trowel can’t be multi used as a self arrest tool on ice? Now you tell me…

good thing I never slipped…

[Roger Caffin]

I never said that.
I have in fact used my trowel to cut hand holds and foot holds in snow to get over a cornice. OK, not a big cornice, but there was some runout below. It was fun.

In softer snow, up a gully, I used my hands in GTX mitts to karate punch handholds once too. Sue thought the whole thing was a bit ‘iffy’. The lady coming down after we got up used a rope for the descent, but she had a young kid (son?) with her.

Cheers

[John Vance]

I use the Camp Corsa for the conditions described and much better than a stake or trekking pole.  I have used those in the past when caught off guard but less than ideal.  No affiliation to them and purchased mine from REI on sale for $90 or so many years ago IIRC.  They are still available at many retailers including Amazon.

https://www.camp-usa.com/outdoor/product/discontinued/discontinued-fw2020/corsa-ice-axe/

 

[David Gardner]

I need to grab one of those while I still can! 7.2 oz and $120 isn’t a bad price.

[John Vance]

A simple google search will net you a much cheaper price than $120 as well.

[David Gardner]

Hmmm…maybe one or two of these, after smoothing the “handles.”

Less than $30, less than 5 oz, handles >11″

[Roger Caffin]

Those are not ice axes; they are pterodactyls, and they are only of use for vertical ice climbing (like waterfalls). They are utterly useless for walking, and mostly useless for self-arrest as well (the spike just cuts through the snow).

Cheers

[jscott]

Roger wrote: “I never said that.”

of course not; I was making a joke at my own expense. Or actually, no one’s expense since I was never really dumb enough to do that.

[David Gardner]

Right, they’re not ice axes and they are intended to be used as you described.

The way I’ve always seen ice axe self arrest taught is with the pick into the surface and the adze up, so I disagree that they would be useless. The pick on these devices looks very similar and is of a similar size as that of a proper ice axe, so they might be useable in a similar way.  May need to mod them a bit, put some kind of grip on the “shaft,” maybe weld on an adze.

In any event I’m willing to give the idea a try for $23-$30 each. The Black Diamond is $30 and 4.6 oz, the larger DMM Bulldog is $29 and 5.3 oz, and the 11″ DMM Terrier is $23 and 2.6 oz.

Mmm…new gear ideas to try out. Another reason for looking forward to winter coming.

[Geoff Caplan]

Before you settle on the Camp Corsa, check out the Petzl Ride. I suspect that this is the competition that’s driven the Corsa out of the market.

At just 1.1 oz heavier you get a proper steel head vs the far less robust aluminium head of the Corsa. The steel head allows for a more effective pick design – to compensate for the weaker material aluminum requires a broader and blunter pick that doesn’t penetrate as well.

OutdoorGearLab found that the Ride was significantly better than the Corsa for self-arrest (9/10 vs 5/10) and for climbing steep ice and snow (5/10 vs 3/10). It fared slightly worse than the Corsa for chopping steps and digging snow (4/10 vs 5/10), but was more comfortable to carry in self-arrest position (8/10 vs 6/10). They both rated 7/10 for use as an improvised anchor. The Ride is also cheaper than the Corsa.

I found a couple of other reviews that compared the two, and the Ride was much preferred despite the minor weight difference.

Seems to me that the main function of a tool like this is for self-arrest, and 1.1 oz is a modest penalty to pay for a proper steel axe that is much more likely to actually work in a life-or-death situation. The self-arrest performance is impressive, and it beat out some much heavier tools.

Speaking personally, if there’s a real need for self-arrest I’d rather thole the weight and carry a proper axe than try and shave a few oz with some of the improvised tools suggested above. Way back in the early ’70s there was a short fad for little ice-daggers and ice hammers to supplement your axe on steep ice. But they were pretty useless and I sure wouldn’t carry one as my only security for steep snow-ice – not the way I’d want to be leaving the planet…

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/snow-sports/ice-axe/petzl-ride

[Dave @ Oware]

Other functions of an ax are to cut steps, self belay with the spike in the snow, belay anchor (deadman) and use as a boot ax belay. That ultralight axe should be longer and lose most of the teeth to do those things well.

On some Sierra Trips with a group, where we already had climbing ropes with, we would bring just one ax for the snow finger crossings.

Cross on belay, chopping steps if needed and set up a fixed line for the others to cross.

Sometimes for early morning peak climbs where the snow on the approach would be hard,  we would kick steps in the soft snow the afternoon before the ascent.

Another, not ultralight technique, was a genuine army issue entrenching tool  (used for digging cat holes for the group) with the blade at a 45 degree angle used for chopping giant steps for the group. Especially useful when the students are wearing the big rubber bunny or mouse boots without crampons.

Finally, when self arresting with any tool, do not let up, even if it doesn’t stop you,  you can slow the descent, and help keep your head pointed uphill so the feet hit any obstacles first.

[Geoff Caplan]

Obviously something like the Petzl Ride is a specialist tool.

At half the weight of a conventional axe you’re going to have to accept some compromises.

As the sole axe for a group, I suspect it will fall short.

[John Vance]

The black diamond raven is a nice do it all with a proper steel pick and adze for a very respectable weight and highly regarded.   Looks like the previous version is $50 and the new version is $90 and lighter.

[Dave @ Oware]

“Obviously something like the Petzl Ride is a specialist tool.

At half the weight of a conventional axe you’re going to have to accept some compromises.

As the sole axe for a group, I suspect it will fall short.”

Sorry Geoff- I didn’t mean your suggestion was poor, I was typing about the little 8″ prototype axe. I would have taken the Petzl for the light duty work of chopping a few steps and self belaying across a crusty finger of snow to use with a rope in getting a group across.

[Geoff Caplan]

John – the shortest version of the new Black Diamond Raven is 15 oz as against 8.4 oz for the Petzl Ride.

Obviously, the Raven is a more rounded axe, but there’s a significant weight penalty.

Different tools for different sets of priorities, I would suggest.

 

[Roger Caffin]

I suggest we are still seeing a bad example of ‘Never mind the function, feel the weight’.

Sad.
Cheers

[Cameron M]

I would just like to chime in for the uninitiated readers that any kind of hand/ice pick variation is folly, please don’t do it! Once you get going fast down a hill, which is almost immediately, even the most well-trained of us with the proper axe may only stand a 50% chance of injury or death.

All arrest discussions are complicated by the fact that there are many types of snow and ice, and conditions change by the hour. In the early morning cold, the surface is hard and fast; later, when it is warm, your axe might just slice through slush and not do much to slow you down.

[John Vance]

+1.  You really need to temper your true need to the tool of choice.  While something is better than nothing, the proper tool for the job is the best tool to use – and you should be skilled in the use of the tool and have recently practiced its use.
Where we tend to lose sight of this while backpacking is weighing options -pun intended- while considering the carry time vs actual use time, or even the need to use at all.   Finding other uses for an ice axe helps justify the extra weight and makes short work of cat holes, taking stakes out, raking small stones and pine cones from a tent site and even the third leg, and short term seat, of a stool.

[Pedestrian]

One other thing to consider: unfettered innovation is great when it comes to lower risk, low consequence domains but when the consequences of a “failure” are high (of either equipment or of user), innovation must take a back seat to prudence.

 

[Ross Bleakney]

What I’ve used in the Spring is a heavy duty trekking pole. I remove the basket, so that it can go in deeper. There are really two modes (not unlike a typical ice axe). When traversing, it is moderately extended, and provides an anchor point. When I’m going down a slope, and feel relatively safe, I’ll shrink it up (providing even more strength) and have it at the ready, to use for self arrest. This is for snow, not ice. I’m snow savvy, so I wouldn’t recommend this approach for everyone. Back in the day (before trekking poles became popular in the states) I used to find a stick, and use it for the same purpose. I’ve also done a self arrest by punching the snow (always a good technique to learn).

The only thing I lack is the shovel part of the axe. There are times when I could use it, but I never find that I really need it.

Unfortunately, my approach doesn’t save much weight. The trekking pole is really heavy. Mainly it cuts down on bulk. I don’t have to worry about something poking me (I use the pole as a regular trekking pole when I’m on dirt). I wish someone made a metal cover, to go over a trekking pole. It would have a slit towards the top to allow a strap to be easily pushed through. It wouldn’t save much weight either, but be really easy to pack (only one tip). I would use my regular trekking poles while hiking, but then collapse a pole (the one without a basket), slip over the metal cover, push through the strap and be ready to go.

 

 

[Ross Bleakney]

My biggest suggestion for short snowfields in California, is to pick the time of day carefully.

Yeah, I agree. It isn’t just California, either. The higher and later in the year, the more likely you are to have nasty ice in the morning. Just wait it out. If you know the area, you can plan accordingly. I’ve done that. I usually like to get moving in the morning and cover some miles before noon. But on a memorably backpack trip we had to go over an area we knew had snow, so we just took our time. It worked out great.

[David Gardner]

There have been good suggestions in this thread, and discussion of the broader subject of ways to deal with or avoid issues of ice and snow.

Route selection and time of day may be the two most important factors for crossing ice or steep snow, especially if there’s exposure in a fall. And it’s always best to have the right tool for the job.

But if one encounters unanticipated and extreme situations or circumstances beyond their control, and there is no other option that is not more likely to end in death, it’s good to be able to improvise too.

[Pedestrian]

“But if one encounters unanticipated and extreme situations or circumstances beyond their control, and there is no other option that is not more likely to end in death, it’s good to be able to improvise too.”

*Planning* to  improvise with half-baked “tools” is folly.

Hopefully no one *plans* go over snow/ice fields with homebrew aluminum “nails”!

It’s one thing to be caught unawares in a situation where one has to improvise. But in this day of real-time satellite imagery and planning/mapping tools that should be a rare/unlikely occurrence.

 

 

 

[David Gardner]

+1

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