Schnozzel to WingLock Adapter Ideas?

[Brian F]

Been using the Schnozzel with my older XLite without any adapter (removed a small amount of material from inside of Schnozzel using a Dremel and NeoAir plugged right in).  I just replaced with a new UberLite that has the “latest/greatest” WingLock valve from Thermarest.  Anyone come up with a solution on adapting the Schnozzel to the new WingLock?  Simplest thing I came up with is a small piece of old road bike (narrow tires) inner tube with drawstrings/cordlocks at each end.  Gotta be something a bit more “elegant”. Would welcome some ideas/solutions.

[Bill in Roswell]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I use a S2S Airstream bag, same diameter flange as the Exped to fit my older Neoair. Here’s what I came up with: get a Smartwater .75 liter bottle with sport cap. Knock out the blue part of the cap. Get .5 in. poly tubing from a beer makers supply or similar source. Tube should be 3-4 in. long. Use some type of awesome glue for plastics (think I used jewelers glue). Press the tube over the T-rest valve. Insert blue piece into pump bag flange. Works great for me. Less than 3 bags of air inflates a Regular Wide Xlite pad.</p>

[Brian F]

Thanks Bill.  I do have a good working solution for my older NeoAir valve style that requires no additional parts.  Was looking for an adaptation for the new Thermarest WingLock valve now in use.

So I was sitting here having coffee after creating this post.  Just staring at the new NeoAir, with it’s new WingLock valve and the supplied pump sack, which is terrible, especially compared to the Schnozzel.  And it occurred to me that the Schnozzel is designed to work with flat valves, which is what is used on the Thermarest pump sack.  Thought, hmm, can I fit the Schnozzel into one side and the Winglock into the other.  And low and behold I could.

Simple solution: cut the flat valve out of the NeoAir pump sack and just use it.  No other adaptation needed.  Trimmed down, the flat valve from the NeoAir weighs in at 3 gm.  And now my Schnozzell (with very small amount of valve inner surface removed with) works with both older NeoAir Valves and new WingLock for a total wt of 3 gm.

 

Schnozzell and supplied NeoAir WingLock pump sack side by side

 

Cut out flat valve from NeoAir pump sack slid over Schnozzell via inner part of flat valve

And below works like a charm, just a minor amount of finesse required when mating.

[Evan E.]

wow, this is great, thanks!

[Richard Sullivan]

Praise the Lord, and Brian F, this is brilliant!!

[obx hiker]

When I got an xtherm back @ 2018? I cut the outlet of the pump sack out of the sack and fitted it to a kitchen trash bag and have been using it with the same trash bag ever since. It’s really light and I like the way the top opens wayyy up for catching air.

So this spring I got an uberlite and agree the pumpsack… well my Mother used to always caution us that if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t  say anything at all so…. ;)   I was thinking of cutting out the fitting just like I did with the xtherm and fitting it to a kitchen trash bag but I like the way that snozzle er schnozzel.. looks so thanks for this idea! (though that kitchen trash bag is really light)

[Bruce Tolley]

I see why Exped wants people to use a bag to inflate a pad filled with down but why do we need (vs want) a bag to fill the NeoAirs?  Use of the bag, as far as I can see, does not remove any moisture from my breath.

[Todd T]

Use of the bag, as far as I can see, does not remove any moisture from my breath.

Of course not, but it does keep the moisture from going into your pad.  Filling the inflator bag requires one quick, partial breath, which does little more than push air ahead of it enough to fluff the bag.  Inflating manually puts a dozen or two full, moist breaths directly into the pad.  There is a LOT of difference in how much moisture goes into the pad.

That said, minimizing moisture is just a fringe benefit.  The inflator bag is mostly about convenience, not psychrometry.

[jj]

great hack

[obx hiker]

Yeah well back in the stone age I had a Stephenson downmat and the mold provided a nice moist environment from my breath colonized the inside of the mat and degraded the stone-age urethane coating and……  Man that was one warm and comfortable pad!

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Todd

So we assume the inflator bag does not removes moisture and does not reduce the moisture that goes into the pad.  So are we assuming that a “partial breath” has less moisture content than a full breath pushed out from (human) diaphram??  The breath is all coming from the same lungs and would have the same moisture content. It just takes longer with perhaps less effort using the inflator bag.

[Todd T]

So we assume the inflator bag does not removes moisture and does not reduce the moisture that goes into the pad. So are we assuming that a “partial breath” has less moisture content than a full breath pushed out from (human) diaphram?? The breath is all coming from the same lungs and would have the same moisture content. It just takes longer with perhaps less effort using the inflator bag.

No.  You don’t blow into the inflator as much as you blow at it.  You don’t have to blow up the inflator at all if  you don’t want–just pull the open end through the air until it fluffs the bag a bit and start squeezing that air into the pad.  Shoot, if there’s a breeze you don’t even have to wave the open end.  You usually get a little better fluff by blowing at it, but you’re not filling it completely with air from your lungs; it’s mostly filling with dry ambient air.

[Bill in Roswell]

Blowing air over open top of pump sack draws ambient air into bag via Bernulli principle (why sailboats can sail into the wind). Very small amount of breath moisture mixes with drier surrounding air (high humidity days excepted).

[obx hiker]

^^ Nothing but ‘natural’ local air for me. No huffing, no blowing. Takes @ 3 kitchen trash bags and often/usually the 3rd is just for getting the tension/inflation correct. Evidently the schnozzel requires @ the same. Actually thinking about it that might be another small advantage to the kitchen trash bag. It ‘flies’ better since its lighter;  so when you are either scooping a bagfull or catching a bagfull as the case may be, it extends horizontally more easily. Usually catching air involves a bit of both scooping and catching but sometimes you get it right and the breeze just fills it right up. I was skeptical about the trash bag for a couple of years but when you consider the operation as you are performing it there really isn’t that much pressure involved and really what location/situation are you in when you’re inflating your pad that you’re going to tear the bag on something? Shoot I’d bet even pin-pricks wouldn’t matter since the air is going to ‘escape’ through the much bigger opening of the pad valve.

I guess the theory is that the pad should be @ the same temp as the local air so there shouldn’t be a condensation event from warm air entering a cold pad. Then as the pad and air warm it still shouldn’t be a condensation problem since warm air holds more moisture in a gassy state.  Then you are forcing the air out when you roll it up in the morning and rinse/repeat. Of course with down involved you really provide a home for aerial mold spores to take hold and thrive as long as they have a little moisture occasionally. With pads not using ‘traditional’ insulation the mold spores could still alight and grow on the inside surfaces; and in the old days degrade the urethane or whatever else is sealing the material?

Am I hopelessly wrong here? Maybe this is all in my head and I just got a bad downmat that only lasted @ 15 years but once burned..

[Brian F]

Everyone seems to be focused on one aspect, moisture in the breath, missing some of the other advantages, although touched on by Todd K.  For me, on long thru hikes, I can get more than tired of blowing up an air mattress everyday for 5 months: tiresome.  Having an alternative means of inflating a sleeping pad can be quite a relief/benefit after a bit.  And, I speak for myself in all of this, inflation using this type of alternative inflation is faster than me blowing into a mattress, and it does induce less moisture – I rarely ever actually blow into the schnozzle and simply “catch” air with a wave of the bag.  Believing in being lightweight doesn’t preclude carrying a couple ounces of convenience (call it a luxury if you like).  Of course, disadvantage is that I don’t get light headed :-)

So, again for me, it’s faster, provides some mental relief on those longer thru hikes at the end of the day, and does extend the life of my pad by reducing the amount of moisture introduced.  I wish I had a picture of my first NeoAir after blowing it up everyday for 5 months, insides were black.

[Bruce Tolley]

Todd’s “fluffing” explanation made sense to me. Thanks.

 

[DWR D]

Pretty sure that Therm-a-Rest says that breath moisture will not harm their mattresses… owner’s manual…. Though… I guess they could be saying that just to sell more product…

 

[edvin mellergård]

I 3d printed this adapter in TPU to make it possible to use my Exped schnozzle bag with my Neoair xlite. It’s designed to be a tight fit and be permanently attached to the sleeping pad.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10irJK1Gv2J-ZA0rQ-EI-pb9Fz91PYnLE/view?usp=sharing

V1

V2

I’ve also done abunch of other adapters. Here is to inflate our Exped double sleeping pad(or thermarest with the other adapter) from our packraft pumpbag.

[Paul S]

Cool adapter! What type of 3-d printing method did you use? And what material did you use?

 

[Rex Sanders]

2019-2020 thread on Therm-a-Rest and breath moisture:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/therm-a-rest-says-breath-inflation-perfectly-safe-for-pads/

In an unprecedented event, BPL members did not reach a consensus :-)

— Rex

[Roger Caffin]

HA! Pure Therm-a-Rest marketing spin! Total crap.

This is what happens after one or two mouth inflations in cold weather – when you need your pad at its best.

You get a whole lot of condensation inside the mat. That both degrades the coating and kills any insulating material inside the mat.

And for the record: that is MY mat and MY photo, taken on a trip before we started to always use a pump for inflation.

Cheers

[obx hiker]

Well Well

[Richard Sullivan]

There is no need to blow into the Schnozzel bag, just hold it open and jerk it upwards to fill it. This is why many Nemo owners prefer the Schnozzel over the Vortex sack.

[Chris K]

While we’re on the subject, has anyone had success mating the Schnozzel to a Nemo pad? Mine just barely fits. Easily slips off with a little too much room to spare.

[Richard Sullivan]

Normally they are a loose fit but will hold in well enough to get the job done. You have to work on your knees so that the Schnozzel extension stays horizontal to the pad. I operate the bag in my lap while kneeling and no problems. I did switch to Xlite because it feels warmer than the Tensor Alpine and at less weight. Also remember that more fully inflated pads are warmer, and you don’t want damp air in your pad since it has a higher conductance.

[Author]

Posts