Quilt Purchase Advice

[Erik Norseman]

I currently own a Little Shop of Hammocks 50F Apex quilt, a Vesper 20F, a MHW Phantom Alpine -9 Mummy bag, and a Cumulus Alaska 1300 (-30/-40C ish).

The Vesper 20 is really more like a 32f/0C bag. It has about 12oz of 900FP down. I find the gap between the Phantom and Vesper a bit too big. The Vesper 20F is OK down to freezing-ish but really is most comfy down to about +5C.

A lot of the year where I live in the Okanagan (Interior BC, Canada), it is fairly mild and I think a true 20F quilt would get a lot of use most of the year, through our long shoulder seasons (Sept to November and March to May). And then I would also use it in the Canadian Rockies through June to August. For example, on the GDT.

I find the Phantom a bit heavy (almost 1kg) a lot of the time outside of valley bottom winter camping or higher elevation shoulder seasons, or for more climbing and ski touring trips.

I’m wondering if I should look at replacing the Vesper for a cottage quilt or if I keep it and add a 20F quilt. Am I asking too much of a 20F quilt for use from -6C/20F to 10C/50F? Or is that perfect? If so, would you suggest a zippered footbox or closed?

I prefer weight savings of closed and find that sticking a foot with the vesper isn’t hard, but versatility will be important if I want one quilt to span this whole range. I think if I keep the vesper I would definitely get a closed foot box for the 20F, and if I sell it probably a zipped one?
Do people find any drafts in the zipped footbox below freezing? I don’t really want to mess around with sticking a sock in the hole, but some manufacturers include a down plug to fill the hole (Little Shop of Hammocks). Does that work well? Why isn’t it more common?
I’m also open to a zipped hoodless bag like a Conundrum. Any thoughts on that?

Lastly, all the different options are pretty overwhelming. They all kind of seem the same. Are there significant differences between different 20F cottage quilts? The ones I’ve looked at are: EE, Katabatic, Hammock Gear, Zpacks, HMG, LSOH…

[JG H]

I use two quilts and two pads:

Katabatic Palisade w/4oz overfill, so essentially a 20° quilt.

Katabatic Flex 40° quilt

Exped Ultra 5: R-value 4.8

Exped Ultra 7: R-value 7.1

This gives me a lot of versatility in my sleep set-up and I find that I can camp comfortably from the upper teens to the low 50s depending on which pad I use with which quilt. Your pad’s R-value is as important as your quilt’s rating when configuring your sleep setup.

Good luck!

[JG H]

Oh, and fwiw, if I was going to use any quilt other than a Katabatic I would only buy a Nunatak or Gryphon. The build quality is fantastic with all three of those brands and the differential cut they all use makes a difference in performance. Their prices aren’t much more than other cottage brands, if not the same, but you’ll get more for your money.

Just my $0.02…

[sbennett3705]

I just purchased a Flicker 20* in regular/wide, it seems the drawstring footbox is very tight, I can’t feel any draft (yet). It’s a hybrid solution (a quilt with a full zipper) with 16  oz. of 900 down. I’m hoping it can bridge from summer into early fall. My second FF product, they seem very well made.

[Erik Norseman]

JG H – thanks for sharing your system. It does sound versatile. What climate do you camp most in? Interesting to hear about the differential cut from an actual user. I’ve read all the theory as to why that is better. Have you used non-differential cut and really notice the difference? I have a Patagonia Grade VII down parka that is differentially cut and it is the warmest thing I’ve ever worn even in dark Canadian winters. But I’ve never known if the cut was the reason or other aspects of the parka.

Sbennett – thanks for sharing. What conditions have you been using it in? How cold? Sadly FF isn’t as easy to find up North here but their gear does look amazing. Ryan Jordan’s emphatic love of the Tanager has always got me thinking about hoodless bags. Have you used the flicker much yet? Do you think the zip-up option would be much warmer than a quilt? Any thoughts on comparing it to other zip/quilt options, like EE convert? Looking at the Katabatic Flex 22 as a comparison, and it seems to have a 1/2 length zip vs. the 1/4 length on the EE Revelation.  Do you think you gain much (fewer drafts) with a longer zipper, or are the performance changes only apparent with a full length zip to go mummy bag mode?

[JG H]

Most of my adventures are in the mid-atlantic and southeastern US, though I’ve also backpacked in MT, CO, WY, ID, UT, and the Sierras. I backpack in temps with lows down into the upper teens, but rarely any lower. I have used quilts w/out the differential cuts and they were draftier. In the interest of transparency, though, they were also standard-width quilts where my two Katabatics are both wide-width quilts. I’m still a believer in the differential cut, though, and wouldn’t own a quilt that didn’t have it. I recently used my Katabatic on a trip in Yosemite and forgot my pad attachment system. The lows were just below freezing and I was toasty warm in my wide quilt on a 7.1 r-value pad with zero draft issues (and I’m a side-sleeping rotisserie chicken at night).

[Erik Norseman]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>JG H – I’n also a rotisserie side sleeping chicken! Do you know your shoulder circumference? I measure about 47-48” with a light sweater on and so, based on Katabatic’s recommendations, should fit a regular width fine. They suggest 51” is the threshold for wide, or if you just “want it wider.” Any thoughts on that? I use a Vesper now, which has a finished width of about 51.5”. My comparison, I have a friend with a 54” shoulder circumference using a quilt with a finished width of 55” (long/wide EE enigma) and he reports way fewer drafts than me. It makes me wonder what I’m doing wrong, for one, and also whether a regular or a wide quilt is right for me (I’m 5’7” side sleeper and weigh about 165lbs).

It is interesting to hear the differential cut affects drafts! I figured it compressed down less and was therefore warmer/loftier, but didnt realize that would affect drafts. Why do you think that is?</p>

[JG H]

I can measure my shoulder girth in the morning (already in bed).  I can tell you that I’m stout… 5’7” tall, 44” chest, 17.5” neck. I’m an Irish fireplug. Between my husky dimensions and mg restless sleep behavior, a wide works best for me.

And I didn’t mean to imply that the lack of draft is from the cut. I’m guessing it’s primarily from the width and the elastic hem Katabatic uses. The cut may help mitigate draft, but primarily it helps ensure warmth along the opening bc of how it drapes.

[Dan]

One quilt for 20-50F would be a lot to ask for me, personally. But I suppose you could make it work if you’re willing to sleep in extra clothes (including a puffy) at the low end. Given your description of the Vesper, it sounds to me like a 10F quilt, or hoodless bag, might be a good complement to it.

[JG H]

I’m with you, Dan. In my experience, too broad a temp range means misery at one end or the other.

[Jerry Adams]

If it’s warm I fold down the top half of quilt covering my torso.  Just my legs are covered.  Sometimes it’s over 50F

If it’s cold I cover completely and wear down vest.  Good down to 20F

Id like to go somewhere where it’s like 15F just to see if I can do that in comfort.  Last winter I was unable to find such a time.  Once it was that cold but there was a lot of snow.  I don’t like driving in a lot if snow

[Erik Norseman]

Dan – thanks for your thoughts. The vesper is really the only quilt I have experience with. Ive used the 50F synthetic quilt a bit car camping in the summer but not a ton. I bought it mostly to layer over my mummy bags for winter to move condensation point out of my bag and boost that system a bit. It is good to know what the reasonable limits of a single quilt is. So far the Vesper has been awesome from 3-10C, which seems to be the range I camp in quite often. I’m wondering if I got a 10F bag or quilt, would that not be very similar to the Phantom Alpine mummy? It would have a very similar fill weight, comparing to an Enigma.
On the other hand, I wonder if I got a 20F quilt whether it would be too similar to my vesper if I didn’t think the 20F could be comfy above 5C? Maybe 20F and 40F is the way to go?

[Erik Norseman]

Jerry – you’re describing your use case with a 20F quilt?

[George H]

Erik, like JG H said the adjustable or pre-tensioned bottom hem is key to draft control. A few cottage shops use this method

[Jerry Adams]

Erik, yes, 20F quilt

Of my own making so it’s not rated or anything, but I use it down to 20F.

[Author]

Posts