Propane Consumption Estimate for Scout Group Winter Camping

[Bruce Tolley]

Hello Winter Campers

I am helping a Scout Troop organize a beginner snow camping trip in the Sierra Nevada.  The consensus was to take dual burner propane stoves.  I have my own rules of thumb for winter white gas use and 3 season sobutane/propane blend for personal use but would appreciate hearing what others would estimate for a group of 25 cooking a multicourse meal dinner, late night beverages, hot water bottles for each Scout sleeping in a snow trench, and hot breakfast the next morning. We should have access to piped water but for this estimate assume we are melting snow. Thanks for the help.

[Roger Caffin]

For snow camping on extended XC ski trips I allow 60 g per day for two of us, but that is allowing for all snow melting – which never happens. If we find water then 40 g/day per two is usually enough.

You have 25 people: say 12 times our case. That would put you somewhere between 500 g and 750 g for one day. With care a single 1 lb bottle of propane would be enough, or 1.5 lb in extremes.

Hot water bottles???? How about decent air mats? Far more effective: the hot water would not last long.

Cheers

[Bruce Tolley]

Thanks for the information. That is very helpful.

We make the hot water bottles by filling up a 1 liter Nalgene. The hot water bottles help warm up the young people and then they bring the melted water with them to breakfast.  Cheers!

[David Thomas]

I’d skip the hot water bottle (and the potential of soaked sleeping bags) and spend 60 cents each on hand warmers that will last far longer:

Those hand warmers won’t add a lot of Joules, but emotionally can help because it’ll feel like they’re warming up whichever body part they choose.

Fuel consumption, for me, in those situation?  Watching every pot, not over-heating the water nor letting anything reach a boil?  With lots of hot drinks, but no wasted pasta water?  An ounce per person per day.  If there’s snow melting, I bring a HX pot which may or may not reduce total weight over just a weekend, but if I clearly have extra fuel towards the end, then I have the luxury of a hot shower (or at least sponge bath) and unlimited hot tea (tea bags weigh nothing).

But with Scouts?  All sorts of mistakes will be made.  I’d bring 2-3 times as much fuel.  You could have a competition to see which patrol can cook their dinner with the lowest fuel usage (weigh propane cylinders before and after), but you don’t want them scrimping on drinking water or hot chocolate so they stay hydrated.

Instead of hot water bottles, plan on warm water bottles (e.g. pee bottles).  Dumpster dive at the recycling center for Gatorade and other wide-mouth plastic bottles to save 1) that frosty trip to the outhouse and 2) straining to hold it in all night long and not sleeping well.  Then, after the trip, take them all back to the recycling center – only cavers’ drinking/pee bottles are bi-directional.

[Roger Caffin]

But with Scouts? All sorts of mistakes will be made.
There speaks a man with experience.
Spread over several boys.

Cheers

[Bruce Tolley]

David. I have not had a wet sleeping bag in 12 years of doing this with Scouts.  An adult leader fills the bottle, checks for leaks before handing it to the Scout.

Yes with Scouts all sorts of mistakes and mishaps can happen. In my experience, the source of wet sleeping bags while snow camping comes from the Scout who is out playing in the snow, especially body sledding, and goes to bed with frozen snow in his/her clothes.  A couple hours later….

Yes we use hand warmers and footwarmers as well.  But they have risks too. Footwarmers are not interchangeable with handwarmers etc etc.  And with of the products when the envelop rips, creates a mess.

And yes recycled Gatorade bottles are on the list for use at night in the snow caves.

[David Thomas]

Sounds like you’ve got a system down for the hot-water bottles.  And it is nice to take the chill off when you first get in.

You probably know about snagging roofs in snow caves.  Making a more distinct arch helps as do really cold ambient temperatures.

Could an inflatable pool toy be used as the male mold for a snow cave?  Dig a ditch, lay down the inflatable, shovel moist snow over it, let it set, then remove the inflatable.

[Bruce Tolley]

@ David. Sagging/snagging roofs. Yup. I have only seen it once on a Sierra Club introduction to snow camping outing I was helping on.

It was on a relatively warm spring weekend with day time temperatures well above 30 degrees. About 2 hours after everyone went to bed, the roof the snow cave started to cave in on two of the students.  They were not in the group I was supervising, but when we debriefed as leaders we concluded: the students picked a very sunny spot to build the cave with warmish snow, and it was a very warm day. So the roof “arch” did not sinter enough to hold once they got into the cave and their bodies warmed up the inside. It can happen.

RE: using a pool as a mold.   If it were cold enough, a mold could help.  I have never built one, but my understanding of Quinzee (sp?)construction is you start by piling a bunch of gear and all your packs up. Then piling snow on top in the shape of a dome and wait for the snow to sinter.  Then you burrow in and remove the gear and carve out an above ground snow cave like structure.

 

[Author]

Posts