Plastic nanobits in bottled water….

[Brad W]

@Jerry There are numerous studies regarding the plasticizers. Just bad stuff. All we can do is limit what we can, but almost all modern food containers are lined with or contain plastic. The days of the glass jars are almost over. I think pickles and a couple of other items are all that’s left in regards to glass containers.

Like you said-try not to heat plastic-regardless of it’s claim of being safe.

[Jeff McWilliams]

Man I wish we’d go back to glass jars for stuff.  I don’t want broken glass on say, our beaches, but I’d happily go back to getting my burger condiments (ketchup, mustard, mayo) from glass containers.

 

[Jerry Adams]

just looking at my cupboard – pickles, olives, soy sauce, salsa come in glass containers

[Thomas U]

Here’s a similar study by Consumer Reports. A worthwhile read

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/the-plastic-chemicals-hiding-in-your-food-a7358224781/

[Alex Wallace]

I’m wary of FBC too.

[Thomas U]

Here’s a scientific article that discusses the potential impact of phthalates on human health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7460375/

The conclusion was that ” PAEs  (phthalates) are ubiquitous compounds and food contaminants that became of great concern a few decades ago when they started to be regarded as a global threat to human health. In particular, LMW PAEs have shown highly endocrine-disrupting properties (European Union Risk Assessment Report 2003) and have been classified as harmful substances.”

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

No one is stopping you from getting food in glass. Some of us never stopped. Learn to can. Grow your own food, and preserve it. I can over 500 jars a year.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

I’m wary of FBC too.

Here’s the deal: And I’ll repeat it extra loud for everyone: Every recipe I have ever developed and written since 2002 that has FBC in front of it…gasp…you can prep in a pot. And in fact, on my website…they all have both methods listed on the recipes. The reason I created FBC recipes is because huh, people asked for them. It’s actually harder to develop FBC recipes than one-pot method recipes – because you have to ensure it all rehydrates correctly.

But I won’t have my name or reputation smeared. There are a few of you MEN who have loved dragging my name in the mud over the years because you think that is socially acceptable. And you all are members here. One of you is actually relatively famous in the hiking/0utdoor world and used to trash talk about me on his site – and here.

And I created all those recipes and methods at no cost to anyone else. Huh. Maybe I should have never even have tried. It probably makes some of you extra happy. Honestly, the prepper dudes who read my site are far nicer and supportive. And they make their own choices on wether to use mylar bags, plastic bags or even paper bags – or gasp…mason jars. And don’t trash talk. They also have hot beards.

[Alex Wallace]

Right, cook in your pot. That’s exactly what I’ve been doing for over a decade.

As for the other stuff, I have no idea what you’re on about. I simply stated that I don’t like FBC. That’s it.

[HkNewman]

With this much potential exposure, it’ll be an increasingly socio-economic debate pending more research.   Households can easily minimize exposure by cutting down on packaging and  dayhiking, I tend to bring a metal bottle.   Bike riding may follow, though I’ve been looking at a frame bag which houses water in a bladder (of course if I bike in Mexico and replace said water may be the lest concern .. more cerveza and tequila, por favor! Take care of microplastics and microbes!!).

When it comes to longer backpacking trips (northern hemisphere summer), think my exposure will reduced anyways.   May want to keep said bottles cooler assuming increased temperature increases “shedding”.

[Bill Budney]

Possibly easy way to reduce the problem:

Boiling Reduces Microplastics in Drinking Water (Study/MedCram)

[David D]

@Sarah, I know I’ve used a few of your recipes in the past, and just wanted to say thanks

[jscott]

Bill: I dunno. Some doctor on the internet with paid sponsors cites some study that suggests boiling water may reduce plastic intake. Well, maybe! For sure I want to be reassured about this issue. This guy does that. Is the conclusion accurate and true? I wonder. There seems to be concerns about pouring boiling water into plastic lined dehydrated food bags, for instance. And other plastic containers as well. My sense is that boiling water and plastics are a bad combination if you go on to ingest that water.

I admit to not finishing the linked video. The commercial after 30 seconds put me off. Maybe boiling somehow separates out the harmful molecules and renders them harmless?

[Bill Budney]

The study is more important than the video.

I don’t blame you for being sceptical about “some doctor on the Internet”. However, Dr Seheult teaches other doctors and he has been consistently one of the more rational and informative voices during the recent pandemic. It is probably safe enough to trust him, but it is always a good idea to read the studies for yourself.

He is a principal at MedCram, so the advertisement is at least about his services.

[Thomas U]

Dr Seheult is a legitimate healthcare provider being boarded in Internal Medicine, pulmonary medicine and critical care and is an instructor at Loma Linda Medical School. The study cited was a small study from Iran tha basically said that natural breakdown of phthalates over time was accelerated in hot water . Here’s the study :https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5848201/#:~:text=Degradation%20of%20phthalates%20usually%20proceeds,increases%20by%20increasing%20the%20temperature.

[Marcus]

Related Reading – sounds like boiling water could have secondary benefits!

https://www.livescience.com/health/boiling-tap-water-can-remove-nearly-90-percent-of-microplastics-new-study-finds

[jscott]

Marcus…buried away in your linked story is the following:

“However, it remains unclear whether boiling is effective in removing NMPs [nano/microplastics] in tap water.””

Hmmmm….I’m still unconvinced, while hoping boiling actually is effective!

[Martin Van Laarhoven]

Read here about PFAS, often called forever chemicals. These are used to coat many everyday products, from non-stick cookware to water-repellent fabrics. And these chemicals don’t break down easily, which means they accumulate in the environment and in our bodies over time. These chemicals can contribute to cancer, liver damage, and immune system dysfunction. Just what I needed, another thing to worry about.

[Murali C]

Instead of using freezer bags for dehydrating food with hot water – is it safer to use aluminium foil/mylar bags?

[Jeff McWilliams]

Martin – the movie “Dark Waters” came out in 2019.   It’s worth watching.  It’s why the outdoor garment industry has had to reformulate both the waterproof membrane later and the DWR coatings used on outdoor apparel.  This has been happening for some time now.

 

[Jerry Adams]

you could rehydrate your dehydrated food by putting it into the pot you use to boil the water.  That would produce no bits or chemicals

also, it might rehydrate better because it will be a little hotter initially because it doesn’t have to heat up the bag.

[David D]

Wallaby claims their foil/mylar bags (20g ea) are boiled water safe but I wasn’t able to find any independent tests.

I switched to them and reuse the same bag for a week to keep weight down but it’s worth knowing that they absorb strong odours.  I plan my more fragrant meals for the end of the trip

[AK Granola]

“you could rehydrate your dehydrated food by putting it into the pot”

Amazing! Who would have thought you could use a cook pot to make dinner? Just kidding, Jerry. Yeah, I use my cookpot exclusively to rehydrate my food. I can even warm it up again if it’s not quite hot enough for my liking. No gooey plastic or drippy mylar that’s hard to wash or rinse. In 60 seconds my cleanup is done. Kind of a mystery to me why people like eating out of bags. Except chips of course.

[David D]

Murali, here’s a bit more info.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/columns/prairie-fare/prairie-fare-unusual-containers-for-preparing-food-not-always-safe

“The company representative told me that Ziploc brand bags cannot be used to boil food. The bags are made from polyethylene plastic with a softening point of about 195 degrees. Therefore, they could melt when exposed to 212 degrees”

Ziploc doesn’t claim their bags to be boiled water safe & warn that they can melt in a microwave.   So I switched to mylar/film bags.

The real risk is hard to know.  Boiled water in a typical meal brings the combined temp to ~ 170F IIRC if poured carefully onto the food to buffer the temperature shock, below the plastic’s softening point but not by much.

Outdoor Herbivore makes plastic bags (17g) that are safe for boiled water, because they’re ~ 5mil thick vs the Ziploc’s (6g) 2.7mil thickness.

A rule of thumb is that a polyethylene or polypropylene cook bag is generally safe if it’s free of BPA, phthalates, and other plasticizers and is microwave safe (which requires FDA approval)

 

[David D]

AK, you had me questioning this for a (micro) second.  :)

I like a big honking cup of tea with my meals (ex British colony and all), so I use my cook pot as a tea 2 cuppa while the freezer bag meal is stewing.  This way I don’t have to carry and dry another large cup, the bag is a lot lighter (though I do carry my S2S xmug on easy trips).

I also find the pot usually has some lingering smells even after being washed with soap.  I had “something” mess with my cook kit back when I cooked in my pot and a pot is too big to go in the Opsak.

The mylar bag slips right into the Opsak/ursack out of the scent of any pesky night visitors.

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