Pinholes in DCF tent

[Thomas G]

I have a Z Packs Triplex.  It is about 4 years old.  I have noticed many small pinhole size leaks.  They occur in clusters, or lines really, that follow the grain or “weave” of the “fabric.” (pics below) Is there a good way to fix these and prevent ones from occuring in the future.  I have used seamgrip WP here and there as well as a few small pieces of tear tape, but if I put it on every pinhole on the tent, half of it would be covered in seamgrip/patches.

Is this normal for a tent this age?  Should I contact Z Packs for some kind of warranty claim or replacement?

I estimate that the tent has approx 100-125 nights of camping on it.  I have never left it outdoors in the sun for extended periods or anything like that.  I store it the stuffsack that came with the tent.  I live in S. Idaho, where we don’t get a lot of precip during backpacking season but the heavens let loose recently and water definitely got thru these holes.

Thanks

[Michael Gillenwater]

DCF tape. Zpacks sells

[Chris L]

You could also use Mylar tape from Quest Outfitters or Seam Tape from Ripstop By the Roll. Both are much cheaper than DCF tape – which is overkill for small pinholes like that. Any tear where the fabric structure is compromised calls for DCF tape.

[DWR D]

It is out of warranty.

At over 100 nights, I think you got your money’s worth…

I would just get a new tent…

just my 2 cents…

[JCH]

The OP does not mention the weight of the DCF.  I ask because I would not expect to see this in 0.75 oz (or heavier)

[Murali C]

I am sure it is the Zpacks 0.51 osy. I think 125 to 150 nights is probably the life of a 0.51 osy DCF tent. If you take a 3000 mile thru hike and do 20 miles a day – that is 150 nights. If you take really good care, then perhaps it may last longer. But, at this point, I would say, I don’t think Zpacks will do anything. You could try. They will tell you to use DCF tape. After some taping, I am sure you can use it without any issues.

[Brad W]

Did you pull the guy lines overly tight? I have seen people in my groups pull theirs what I would call over tight trying to get that sharp edge, taught pitch. I think this leads to these pinholes quicker.

[Thomas G]

Thanks Chirs!

[Thomas G]

Hi Chris.  Thanks for this tip.  I bought the tape and it seems to work well (getting geared up for the summer season)

[Sam Farrington]

“I have seen people in my groups pull theirs what I would call over tight trying to get that sharp edge, taught pitch. ”

This raises the question whether a taut pitch is possible with DCF.  If not that, whether a pole framework can be devised that will keep a DCF tent taut.  With only one or two trekking poles supporting a tent, it is not surprising that a taut pitch is elusive.

Maybe members with X-Mid Pros can comment on how taut their tents are (photos don’t show the degree of tautness very well).  The alternative, using current woven materials, will add considerable weight.  As will devising a carbon pole framework.  It may be that development of woven fabrics using spectra or dyneema threads is the best answer to development of shelters that are both very light and very durable.

So why are taut canopies necessary?  Would posit that aside from eliminating flapping and noise, a loose canopy in a severe storm creates stresses that can collapse or tear a shelter apart.  Neither healthy nor safe in a severe storm.  Seeing tents either blown over or badly torn made me a believer.  I’ve seen huge canvas tents ballooning and being held in place only by large timber frames and long spikes pounded into the ground with sledgehammers.

For a lot of reasons, it’s about time industry develops super light fabrics woven from the latest materials.  And they would cost a lot less, pack easily and last a lot longer.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

DCF has almost no stretch, so a taut pitch is more elusive than with stretchier fabrics where you can cover up issues with stretch. However, no stretch also makes the tents more solid in high winds. I say my regular tents have a more forgiving pitch and it’s pretty easy to get them tight, while the Pro tents are less forgiving but ultimately can be tighter and more solid in skilled hands.

Whether a tight pitch contributes to a higher wind speed failure point is debatable, but it is nicer to be in a tent that isn’t moving and flapping as much for a variety of reasons including the fly not slapping the inner and condensation not getting knocked off as much.

For the X-Mid but also a rectangular based pyramid tent (e.g. MLD DuoMid) the tent will be imperfect if the base isn’t square. That pulls one diagonal longer and the other shorter, so some seams are tight and others are loose, but with a bit of skill this can be pretty quickly identified and you can tighten and loosen certain corners to move the base into square and get the entire tent tight. With a more complicated base shape it can be more difficult to identify and resolve pitch issues, but assuming the tent is cut properly there will be a way to get the whole thing tight.

[Sam Farrington]

Dan, re “However, no stretch also makes the tents more solid in high winds.”

That may be correct for trekking pole supported tents, although they depend a great deal on stakes to support the poles.  However, with tents supported by a freestanding framework, it is important that the canopy have some ‘give’ or elasticity; that is, when wind or other force is removed, the canopy returns to its taut and unwrinkled original shape.  This applies to dry sil/nylon tents; but those have issues in poor weather.  And I’m not sure at this point if the sil/poly is sufficiently elastic on the bias to behave in the same manner as dry sil/nylon.  This will require some work with panel shapes, and take some more testing of a number of silpolys that vary in quality.

However, if silpoly has enough elasticity, I think it will work well with flexible freestanding carbon frames, and effectively absorb buffets from winds without losing shape.  The framework has the added advantage of a completely open and unobstructed inner, as well as ability to design with curved aerodynamic shapes with less resistance to wind.  Granted, such tents require such a framework, so other ways to reduce weight must be found to make them competitively light.  But I think that can be done.  It is finding a light and durable fabric with the right elasticity in all weather that is the challenge.

[Terran Terran]

In a limited market, new fabrics discount the old.Old product must be despised of for sound economic principles. Only failure and loss of market share will bring forth new innovations. They leave us with good enough. It’s not the lack of possibilities, it’s the lack of income. It’s a limited market.

[Jerry Adams]

“Whether a tight pitch contributes to a higher wind speed failure point is debatable, but it is nicer to be in a tent that isn’t moving and flapping as much for a variety of reasons including the fly not slapping the inner and condensation not getting knocked off as much.”

Yeah, it seems logical that if a tent was set up taut, then if the wind blew more, a less stretchy fabric would move less, which would then release less when that gust of wind stopped – less flapping

It would be interesting to test that to failure

[Terran Terran]

If I get a really tight pitch, I may loosen the lines a bit. I see it as unnecessary stress with wind only adding more. Tight is nice with a snow load. The flapping noise to me is more of a ripple. Nothing is loose or doomed to fail. It just isn’t tight wire tight.

The perfect pitch is a myth reserved for perfectly flat sites.

[Sam Farrington]

“The perfect pitch is a myth reserved for perfectly flat sites.”

What is “perfectly” flat?  I’ve never seen it when scouting for a good campsite in the wilderness.   My goal is to be sure that the portion that will be under me while sleeping will be comfortably, but not necessarily perfectly flat.

Keeping the tent walls flat is another issue.  So a freestanding  framework is used to keep the tent taut. even before pegging, which is only used to anchor the tent.  While the framework supports the tent and keeps it taut.  If the ground is so irregular that it distorts the tent, or even the framework, the tent must be reoriented on the ground before pegging, or moved elsewhere if need be. This is common with tents that are mostly freestanding.

Granted, there may be no good place that is flat enough.  So yes, it may take longer to locate a tent site that will be flat enough to be comfortable.  That’s why finding a tent site near the end of the day may take a while, but IMO is time well spent.

[Sam Farrington]

On the subject of DCF laminate fabric, please note the following comments posted on this forum by Roger Caffin, BPL moderator:

“I was sent some [Cuben], way back then, and experimented with it.  I noticed the lack of stretch or elasticity, which worried me.  So I ran up some small test panels and worked them over.  At the same time I made up some silnylon test samples and worked them over.  I very quickly came to the conclusion that [Cuben] was not suitable for a tunnel tent, as the panels on a tunnel need to stretch a bit when it is erected.

“Also, I noticed that the needle holes in [Cuben] tended to grow quite a bit under tension.  This would be problematic with a tunnel tent in a storm unless you use very wide tapes with a permanent bond adhesive.  I tested this too, and the problem I found there was that the taped joints tended to be rather stiff.

“After that there were at least two other people who made up tunnels out of [Cuben] using my patterns.  I did warn them beforehand about the problems I could foresee.  After they had tested them a bit in the field they confirmed what I had been thinking.

“So the short answer is that I have not built any out of [Cuben], but the longer answer explains why.

“Cheers”

[Terran Terran]

“After that there were at least two other people who made up tunnels out of [Cuben] using my patterns.”

Was that the first Durston?

[Roger Caffin]

Can’t remember

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