Philmont Tent and Sleeping Bag

[Enyaw]

First time Philmonter here….

 

Can’t decide which tent to take for our upcoming 12-day Philmont trek.  My choices are a heavy Marmot Tungsten 1P (3.5 lbs) or a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 (2.4lb tent).

 

I really like the weight savings on the Fly Creek, but am not in love with the tent.  It’s spacious and packs down nicely, but setup is a bit of a bear.  It’s easy enough to set up when conditions are ideal, but do worry about trying to pitch it in the rain, which I’m told is pretty much guaranteed at Philmont in the afternoons, in July.  I probably have buyer’s remorse with the Fly Creek.  I’ve enjoyed it on short trips, but if I had to do it again would probably get a Copper Spur or Tarptent Protrail.

 

The Marmot, while a bit heavy for a one-person tent, pitches in seconds, is truly free-standing, and is pretty much bomb-proof.  The tradeoffs are it’s a true one-person tent, so a little on the small side, but for just sleeping it’s fine.  Also, it’s a bit heavier (which helps in making it bomb proof) and takes up a little more room in the pack.

 

For the sleeping bag, I have a 35 degree synthetic bag and a 10 degree down bag.  We’re going in July and camping anywhere from 7,000ft to 10,000ft.  I’m an East Coaster, and it’s been a while since i camped at elevation.  I can’t remember what worked in the past.

 

Thanks.

[John O]

Lots to unpack here… pun intended.

I lean towards light than heavy and understand that light comes with other consequences as you mentioned.

That philosophy also drives sleeping bag/quilt… lighter better than heavy… I’m also an East coaster/humidity breather… NM gets cold once the sun goes down so that’s my thoughts.

Your Mileage May Vary… HYOH

[Brad P]

Go with the Fly Creek or get the Tarptent.

For the sleeping bags, 10 degrees is warmer than you need, but is it lighter and more compact than the synthetic 35 degree? If so, go with the 10 degree or get a 20 or 30 degree down bag.

[Enyaw]

Thanks for the perspectives.

 

The 35 degree bag is an ounce or two lighter than my down bag.  Philmont recommends a 20 degree bag.  Is that overkill for NM in the summer?  Camp will be at elevations between 7,000 and 10,000 feet.

[Brad P]

How about the bulk of the synthetic bag? Philgear and Philfood are both bulky, so saving space is important.

Philmont recommends a 20 degree bag.  Is that overkill for NM in the summer?

As with everything, it depends. Do you sleep warm or cold? Are you taking a warm puffy? If you don’t sleep cold, a 30 degree comfort rated bag is fine.

Make sure you check if that 35 degree bag is comfort or survival rated. If it’s survival rated at 35, You will be cold some nights. If it’s comfort rated, you’ll be OK, particularly if you have a good puffy jacket.

[John O]

In addition to your personal preference, the geography and month of the summer makes a difference, eg there was snow on the trails in late June and is your trek North country or South country?  Have you experienced NM high altitude, low humidity before?

[Enyaw]

Make sure you check if that 35 degree bag is comfort or survival rated. If it’s survival rated at 35, You will be cold some nights. If it’s comfort rated, you’ll be OK, particularly if you have a good puffy jacket.

My 35 degree bag is survival rated at 35. Comfort is 45. For sleeping, I guess you could call me normal. Don’t sleep cold or hot. I will have a puffy, long johns and wool hat. I think I’m going to bring the 35 degree bag. It’s an ounce or two lighter than the 10 degree bag and compresses just as small.

[Bruce Tolley]

+1 to what Brad says above.

IMO a 20 degrees comfort rated pad is probably overkill but you do need a proper pad to keep you warm when the temps drop below 30 degrees which can happen depending on the elevation of your camp and the forecast weather.

I took a Montbell down sweater to supplement my 30 degree Marmot bag.  I think I only used it one night in my bag on top of Mt Phillips but did wear it a couple of mornings while breaking camp.

[Bruce Tolley]

Re: tent.  In my opinion, you don’t need a bomb proof tent at Philmont. Yes it rains, there are thunderstorms, but you are always camping below tree line. I would go with the lighter tent.

[Brad P]

My 35 degree bag is survival rated at 35. Comfort is 45. For sleeping, I guess you could call me normal. Don’t sleep cold or hot. I will have a puffy, long johns and wool hat. I think I’m going to bring the 35 degree bag. It’s an ounce or two lighter than the 10 degree bag and compresses just as small.

Do you have experience sleeping in this bag when the temp is in the upper 30s/low40s? You might be OK, but there’s a decent chance you’ll have some chilly nights in that bag.

 

[Enyaw]

Thanks all, for the feedback.  I will probably take my nicer gear- light tent (Fly Creek) and down sleeping bag.

 

[Jason G]

I just finished a trek (620-B-02, itinerary 12-18) and thought I’d share my experience. While the first few days were probably typical from what I’ve heard (warm, dry, chance of afternoon thunderstorms), it was cold and rainy for days 7-12 (highs in 50’s, lows of upper 30’s). Late July you may hit the monsoon season.

Tent…

I and another advisor used Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL 1 tents, while the 3rd advisor used a Marmot Tungsten 1p.  The Copper Spurs were always pitched tight and weathered the winds and rain well. The Tungsten struggled to get a tight pitch, but that may also be lack of experience.  I know several other advisors from our troop have taken Fly Creeks in the past or other semi-freestanding tents, and our contingent crew had Tiger Wall and Quarter Dome SL tents. The ground is easy to work with (at least everywhere we camped), such that I would be confident using a semi-freestanding tent. Personally, I’d also take the Fly Creek over the Tungsten.

One evening a storm front rolled in with strong wind gusts.  Our tents weathered it fine, but we watched a tent from another crew get destroyed (snapped poles, ripped fly).  We suspect a bad pitch and/or placement, though, such as not being aligned to shed the wind, so it will also depend on which on you are more confident in pitching.

Sleeping bag…

I used an REI Magma Trail Quilt 30 (allegedly the comfort rating) on a Sea To Summit Comfort Light Insulated air pad (r3.7). I only slept in 150 wool long-sleeve base layers, with light wool quarter-length socks and a 150 wool buff in beanie mode (one night in balaclava mode). This was comfortable for me on the cold nights, too warm on some nights. I’ve also used this in the Sierras approaching freezing temps.

One of the other advisors in our crew used a Nemo Disco(?) 15, but I know he’s always colder than I am.

I suspect the 10-degree down will be too warm, while the 35-degree (survival) synthetic may not be warm enough. Between the two, I’d take the down and unzip it to use it more like a blanket. Or plan on wearing extra clothes to bed (puffy, gloves, etc.).

[Brad P]

I took a Tarptent Aeon and my son used a Duomid in 2019. Non-freestanding work fine. You can easily stake out any tent. There wasn’t a single level spot in any campsite we had, though. That’s the primary reason I wish they allowed hammocks, but I understand the reason they don’t. Just too many people who would be using the same trees.

Sorry you had so much cold rain. That’s my most hated weather. But, I suppose it would be worse if you got the intense heat wave hitting other parts of the West.

[Mark Messonnier]

@Jason G  It’s amazing what a difference a few days and location can make.  Our crew, 613-O, recently finished trek 12-15.  We had one cool, damp day, but most of the time it was warm and dry.  The lowest overnight temperature we experienced was 39F at Anasazi.  My 30 degree UGQ and Nemo Tensor Alpine were more than up to the conditions and my X-Mid1P was just right, even during a blustery night on Dean Skyline.  Many thanks to Rob P. for his contributions here and for sharing his PSR gear lists.  And Brad P., too.  I really benefitted from reading the posts by experienced trekkers.  Philmont was a dream of mine since I was a Cub Scout, and I’m very happy I was able to finally experience it.

[Brad P]

Glad I was able to help. Mark. I’m hardly an expert with just 1 trek under my belt, but I try to pass on what worked and what didn’t for us.

In 2019, we went in late July into early August. It didn’t get very cold. Like clockwork, it was raining somewhere we could see every afternoon. Sometimes on us, sometimes not.

We’re going late June into early July next year. We’ll be even more prepared for cold weather than 2019. Cool, dry weather would be ideal, of course, but you have to be ready for a pretty wide range of likely weather conditions.

Due to unfortunate user error, my Aeon is no more. I’ll likely be taking my silpoly 1p Cirriform next year.

[Rich P]

I went August 15, 2019. Our highest camp was 8500 ft. I slept in/on a Marmot Atom 40 degree bag, 900 fill, wearing silk long top and bottom and polypropylene liner socks to protect the bag from trail funk. Pad was a Big Agnes Insulated AXL. Most nights I slept on top of the bag  until 3am or so. It was a warm week! I only wore my puffy top and wind pants one morning and really didn’t need them.

I go back the same week this summer and plan on the same sleeping bag, but the pad died, TWO TIMES. I’m done with BA pads and switched to a S2S Etherlite Insulated.

[Enyaw]

Got back a couple weeks ago.  Went with Fly Creek tent and 10 degree bag.  Bag was a little warm most nights, so used it unzipped like a quilt.

For tent, Fly Creek was fine.  Still prefer easier setup of Marmot, but weight savings was worth it.  Tent held up well during a couple intense overnight storms.

we had a strenuous trek.  Most in our crew thought it was more moderate, but it was the right trek for our group.  Any harder and a few would have struggled.

I loved Philmont.  It was my first and probably last time.  Son ages out after next summer 🙁

[Bruce Tolley]

Great to hear that you had a good trip.

[Rich P]

There’s no reason to stop Scouting if you’re still having fun.  My boys are 32 and 30 and I’m starting my 25th year volunteering and 19th year as SM with 27 Eagles.  I’m still having fun.  2nd Philmont Trek this summer and 3rd next summer!

[Author]

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