Outer layer for winter hiking/backpacking

[Matt W]

Trying to get my gear lined up for some winter backpacking trips (1-2 night averages).  While i have a good winter parka, it’s not something i want to hike in, but would likely pack for around camp.

So for layering i’ve got my base layers and was planning on my down jacket for my mid layer.  But i don’t think i have anything good for a windproof and water resistant shell.  So i started looking at those types of jackets and i was astounded at their cost $$$  Arcteryx is like $300 and up…and they aren’t even insulated!!  So as i was reading the spec’s, trying to understand how that type of jacket differs than my North Face Venture 2 jacket that i consider to be my “rain jacket”?

Is my Venture 2 sufficient, or does it make sense to look at investing in something like an Arcteryx?  I require tall sizes, so my options and brands might be extremely limited.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

If, and that is an important “IF”, you can wear all the layers you need under your Venture 2 without binding or compressing the insulating layer(s).

My REI Kimtah eVent parka was purchased one size larger (XL) to accommodate winter layering like my Eddie Bauer down “sweater” over a synthetic sweater and base layer. IT works to about 10 F. when moving moderately. However my size Large PacLite GTX parka would not accommodate thee layers easily.

I have a larger, old GTX mountain parka from EMS that has pit sips and a powder skirt among other amenities that I do wear if I need more layering.

Finally, I have a very cold weather (as in -30 F.) Eddie Bauer PEAK XV down park that has both a good shell DWR treatment and a down DWR treatment so it can take wet snow but not a continuous rain. Doubtful I’d be finding rain in temps that require that parka. As you suggest, this is usually my winter “camp parka”.

 

 

[Mark Verber]

What’s the difference between your TNF Venture2 and the $300 ArcTeryx?  You didn’t provide the model so can’t say for sure, but likely better breathability and more durability.  Is the Venture2 sufficient?  Likely.  Ideal? Probably not.

A lot depends on the conditions you are facing, how hot/cold you run, and how much you sweat compared to others. The advantage of the soft shells are they are more breathable than the so-called “waterproof breathable” shells.  In the winter you really DON’T want moisture to accumulate.  I keep some notes on clothing you might find useful.

[Elliott Wolin]

If you expect really cold temperatures, always below freezing, then simple uncoated fabrics that really breathe may be the best bet.  I have Taslan and 60/40 nylon/cotton parkas that I use all the time in the winter.  They are much cheaper than waterproof/breathable parkas and breathe much, much better.

The old Sierra Designs 60/40 is the classic, I made one out of Taslan, and I got a really heavy one from Finland (too heavy for backpacking, but only $70 or something like that).  I haven’t looked, but I imagine someone makes them.

[Kevin R]

What temperatures/where are you planning on going?  Unless you’re going somewhere extreme, the Venture 2 should work just fine as a windbreaker.  It has pit zips so you can vent if needed.  As others have said, moisture (such as sweat) is not a good thing to have around in the cold, so when you’re moving, you’ll want to wear minimal layers.  For temps in the low 30s, I might wear an undershirt, thin long sleeve shirt (like Patagonia capilene 1), and if its windy, I’ll wear my rain jacket to block that and trap a bit of heat.  If it’s below 30, I might add a fleece jacket or polypro layer under the rain jacket.  One of the best pieces of clothing for easily regulating your temp while walking is a hat- start to get warm, and pull it part way off; at the first possibility of breaking a sweat, pull it all the way off.  Very handy for regulating your temp on the go.  When moving, your body will produce most of the heat you need.  In camp, you can add some extra layers, like a down puffy.

[Edward John M]

Without knowing all the details I would say to use what you already have and wear the winter down over the top of that TNF jacket when you stop. When you get to camp and have everything pitched etc then just swap over, that said there is a lot to recommend buying a decent windshirt as an extra breathable over layer, if you are of small to average build then perhaps the Fauxdini thread will be of interest
Mark Verbers link has a lot of excellent information

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Matt
You don’t say what winter conditions you expect to experience so it is hard to give specific advice.

In your first post it seems that you are suggesting a down jacket as your mid layer. In the Sierra Nevada when the day time temps below tree level never go much below 20 degrees F, in my experience a down mid layer will get wet under a backpack and then be useless as insulation.

I usually get by with a base layer, a light fleece layer (hooded patagonia R1), and a windshirt, sometimes supplmented by a softshell. A puffy jacket is for around camp sized large enough to fit over all the layers including the hardshell. When on the move over snow, the hardshell comes out during high wind or when wet snow is falling. Given the cost of the hardshell parkas you are looking at, you might want to fine tune all your other layers, and buy the parka last. My goal is to arrive at camp relatively dry from managing my layers.

I do winter snow camp with folks who have a different techique. Namely, they wear a hardshell the whole time while travelling over snow no matter what the conditions, then do a complete change into dry clothes once they reach camp. Such a technique means carry a lot more weight.

[David P]

Plus one to what been said.  Temperature range is helpful (Plus size camp parka, hat for heat regulation, managing moisture while moving to arrive relatively dry) While doing high output activity it’s best to dress cold. Meaning when you first start you want to feel underdressed, slightly cold. The heat generated during excercise will quickly warm you up. I do a lot of winter running and skiing between -10 and 25 degrees. Puffy insulated pieces worn during exercise are a recipe for getting wet with sweat, saturation of your down insulation could potentially spell trouble in camp. I keep all camp insulation isolated in stuff sacks and don’t take it out till I reach camp. (Extra base layers top and bottom, 2 puffy pants, 2 puffy tops, waterproof parka, extra hat, puffy gloves, the quintessential dry socks, etc…)I don’t spare any camp insulation amenities in deep winter despite the weight.

20-30 degrees , while active, I wear a single lightweight base layer (capilene LW)with a Houdini, similar for bottoms, single base layer with soft shell pants. Houdini has No pit zips but I just unzip the front to let sweat vapor escape if needed, pants have side zips for dumping heat. If heavy wet snow I sub the Houdini for a UL rainshell and the soft shell pants for gore tex with side zips while active.

one trick for active moisture management from 0 -20 degrees is , instead wearing a thicker base layer I wear two thin long sleeve base layers (cap LW) and possibly a thermal weight capilene hoodie. If things do get moist in there with some sweat it is a lot easier and faster for individual layers to dry out than a single, heavier weight layer.. this means more comfort on days 2 and 3 if your active layers are nice and dry. I have a lightly insulated nano air and an insulated snow skirt (EE) to toss on and off during breaks if needed.

if your venture 2 is a sufficient rain shell I would keep that packed away in case of wet snow and invest in a good “wind shirt” to wear over your base layer while moving. A lot less $$ 60-80 on eBay for a Houdini or the like.

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