New HMG Quilt

[Brad Rogers]

I just saw Hyperlite Mountain Gear has released a new quilt  Rated to 40*F  8.85oz of 1000 fill power down, 7d shell,  14.38oz and $549USD.

Perhaps this inflation has just got to me but I thought it looked interesting until I saw the price.  $549 for a 40* quilt sounds absurd.  That’s more than I paid for my 45* quilt, 30* quilt, 20* quilt, or 0* bag.  I just checked for reference and a EE Enigma 40* with 8.25oz of 950 fill power down is 13.4oz and $360.  I would have thought $360 was high for a 40* quilt but compared to the HMG it seems like a bargain.

[Monte Masterson]

The regular HMG 40* has the same dimensions as the Enigma regular/wide (58″ shoulder 42″ foot) so you’d be looking at $390 for the EE 40*regular/wide with 7D shell. At $159 more the HMG’s only advantage I can see is 1000 fp vs EE’s 950 fp. Fill weights are virtually the same.

[Brad W]

Wow. I’d get a Hammock Gear Economy Custom(18oz) for $215 before I spent $500+ on a 40f bag.

[Marcus]

This is a joke. Look at the picture of it partially stuffed in the stuff sack below – does it look like sewn though baffles? Looks like it to me. Also appears to be sewn through based on how the footbox seam looks.

Based on my comparison to Hammock Gear fill weights, it appears the HMG quilt has 130% overstuff. Personally I dont hit comfort rating until at least 150% overstuff or over-height baffles (for example, katabatic or gryphon gear use taller than standard baffles for a given temp rating) .

Hard pass. Trailheadz is cheaper and better for the same quilt. He quoted me $400 for my 10* dream quilt in 900fp or $500 in 1000fp (but a 10* has approximately 2x the down of a 40*, so still cheaper for a TH quilt with almost a POUND of 1000 fill down.).

[Brad Rogers]

It makes the $14o (on sale) I paid for my Golite Ultra 20 back in 2009 seem like a bargain!  I did have Javan Dempsy make me a custom quilt in 2010 too – I use both to this day.

My 45* quilt is an old Backpacking Light Pro 90 quilt – That’s going WAY back.

[dirtbag]

I dunno. I just used a MLD Vision quilt,  size large at 13oz., with a low temperature rating of 40-50°F. Believe it cost me $165 + S&H.  I dont wanna hear about weight difference because my pack with food for 2 days weighed 8 lbs 4 ounces.  So even if the down quilt saved me a whopping full pound, my pack would have been 9 lbs 4 ounces.  It also packed well small enough that all my gear fit in a small Zpacks Subnero pack with extra room to spare in it. Such a small negligible difference in weight and volume at such an absurd cost? I have started ditching all my down quilts for synthetic as i ditched the DCF for silpoly or silnylon and I feel I am a richer man and more comfortable out in the mountains. I dont notice the weight or volume space in my packs and I also feel a bit more confidence in the gear I have been using and conditions I have been in. I also will not be devastated if something should happen to my gear, as I was when my DCF tarp shredded to $hit in a storm some years back. Much cheaper to replace if needed. I am using this gear in the wild and I dont want to have to baby it soo much that I am scared to use it because of how much it cost me to buy!  Just ranting here, its a personal issue for me but I am not being suckered into it anymore..

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

Will these be made in Mexico?

[John K]

I’d have laughed, but it’s not April 1st.

[Philip Tschersich]

Huh.

I’m sure HMG has tons of capable people working for them. I’m sure they can get lots of feedback from experienced backcountry users. But somehow this is the overpriced/uninspired thing they come out with?

And yet, I bet it will sell well.

Or maybe it goes the way of their overpriced/uninspired jacket?

P.S. For that price I would expect vertical baffles, personalized tailoring, an amazing pad attachment system, and a hundred dollars in Alaskan air taxi service vouchers.

[Opogobalus]

Isn’t this exactly in line for the marketing strategy of this company?

[Monte Masterson]

But a person of means or an FKT/adventurer racer might be able to justify the extra price of the HMG quilt because if the 1000 fill provides 2 or 3 degrees more warmth over the same weight 950 fill, then that can make a noticeable difference. The EE Enigma 40* regular/regular has 8.25 oz 950 fill and the EE regular/wide 8.78 oz. HMG regular is same dimensions as EE regular/wide and has 8.85 oz 1000 fill.

The extra price of the 1000 fill wouldn’t be worth it for a poor boy like me, but there are some ultralighters out there who absolutely want the highest warmth to weight ratio and they will pay for it. I’m not sure what gear maker could match or beat HMG’s quilt in that regard. I mean how much more warmth does 1000 fill provide over same weight 950 fill? I don’t know

[[ Drew ]]

If the HMG quilt uses sewn through baffles, as someone else pointed out, then the 950 fill EE enigma is going to be warmer despite the 1000 fill.

[Marcus]

I asked HMG yesterday and they confirm this quilt is SEWN THROUGH. $550 for a sewn thru quilt you could make for ~$250. Sheesh. I sleep cold so personally I doubt this would work for me, cost ignored.

EE 950 FTW.

[Monte Masterson]

So please explain why sewn through baffles are bad. I don’t doubt you guys know what you’re talking about. I know virtually nothing about quilt design.

With 8,85 oz of 1000 fp down the HMG quilt should have a pretty accurate 40*temp rating, at least with an adequate sleeping pad. And lets face it, most bags and quilts are overrated so maybe HMG is keeping it real.

[Roger Caffin]

I mean how much more warmth does 1000 fill provide over same weight 950 fill?
NONE.
You can only get a 1000 rating by using the IDFL method: you dry the down to 0% RH. Think it is going to stay that dry overnight? It is purely a bit of marketing spin. The Europeans do not use that method of measurement: they scorn it.
Actually, 900 and 950 are the same: spin.

why sewn through baffles are bad
There may be 2″ of down in the middle, but there is no insulation at the line of stitching. Sewn-thru quilting is not very warm. (But it is cheap.)

Cheers

[Marcus]

why sewn through baffles are bad
There may be 2″ of down in the middle, but there is no insulation at the line of stitching. Sewn-thru quilting is not very warm. (But it is cheap.)

This is my beef. On a close to $600 quilt (assuming there is some shipping or tax) it should be premium to the max in every way. That mean box baffles. They would add 1/2 oz? but would completely eliminate cold spots and improve the lower limit of the quilt.

The down fill is adequate for the temp rating as you note, but that assumes box baffle. The numerous, long seam lines all have 0 insulation as Rodger says

[Ratatosk]

^Dirtbag –

I call that stuff ephemeralite; its only virtue is its low weight. For five ounces less than a useful item, you can have one you’ll have to adjust your entire hiking behavior to protect, for twice the price! At some point backpackers are gonna have to add back that pound of base weight in order to have gear that lasts more than a season or two.

As for the HMG quilt, people will buy it, and I’m sure it’ll keep people warm, but buying retail is not a game that anyone wins. I think the social media game inflates prices for buzz-worthy companies like HMG, because they get bought to be displayed. I got my summer quilt by trading up to a pair of binos and then trading those for a Flicker, so I think I paid 270 or so in actual monies for it. That’s the fun part of gear-getting for me.

[[ Drew ]]

 

 

 

 

 

 

From HMG’s own product page. A picture is worth 1000 words…errr…fill power 😂

 

[Jon Solomon]

This product is aimed at the people who don’t know much about the Cottage industry. HMG’s distribution network makes them widely available on big commercial sites and stores.

Like many here, I too spend a lot of time tracking new developments and products because it’s a passion. But it does take a certain amount of time. Think of the price of the HMG bag as a surcharge for saving time, for being able to glide into a site and get a solid UL product at a snap of the finger with no wait time and no consumer research effort. It wouldn’t be meaningful for me but when I see just how popular HMG packs are here in Europe, I have to admit that it is apparently meaningful for lots of people who probably just don’t get that passionate about gear and don’t want to spend the honkin’ time on figuring it all out.

Any time I see people choosing UL gear, I always appreciate it. Now if only people would learn how to use it right — beginning with guylines on tarps/tents…

But yeah, inflation is crazy. I 2.5L can of Hammerite that cost me 59,95€ two months ago now costs 79,95€.

[Monte Masterson]

On a related note, I see that Loco Libre is now offering quilts with an Argon 49 shell option, but as far as I can tell only with the 20* and 50* Operator Series Ghost Pepper quilts. I don’t know why it’s not an option on their regular Ghost Pepper quilts, which allows you to choose between many temperature ratings.

A .49 oz shell is beyond insanely light to the point of being sick maybe, however with 900 fill you could get the best warmth to weight ratio available. So what do you guys think of Loco Libre’s baffle designs? Would appreciate an analysis because I’ve been considering a 50* summer quilt with Argon 49 shell. Thanks.

https://www.locolibregear.com/gear.html#!/20%C2%B0-Operator-Series-Ghost-Pepper-Topquilt/p/88327053/category=130871343

I love the first paragraph of the product details. It perfectly defines the SUL spirit in not too many words: “the long distance hiker who is mistaken for a day hiker” –  yes, that’s when you know you’re getting ultralight.

[Jon Solomon]

0.49 osy. Cool.

As weight reduction hits the point of diminishing returns (0.5 oz each side compared to 10D), I’d be more interested in fabric performance beyond weight. For some reason, Argon 90 has been credited with a relatively high CFM (35 – 40) but when I’ve used it in the breath test, it feels more like 10.
Dutchware doesn’t advertise the CFM or the MVTR of Argon fabrics.

Just some thoughts.

[Montmolar]

I can attest to the quality of Argon 49 and it’s use as a quilt inner & outer material – have been using it on several of my MYOG partial box baffle quilts (Link to Reddit) and really love the fabric!

Incredible weight and especially body feel. Reasonable strength (imo no difference to the Membrane RipStop 7D) and good down retention. As with all of these thin fabrics it’s a bit tricky to work with.

Regarding the baffle design: I think it’s a good idea and should work reasonably well!

Only downside I spotted with these quilts: The top drawstring is placed in center and I’d rather have it offset, so the cordage won’t be in your face when you cinch it down.

[Jon Solomon]

The material sounds like a winner.

[Monte Masterson]

Incredible looking quilt Montmolar. 101 g shell? Wow, that’s as cutting edge as it gets. Partial baffles saving even more weight…ingenious. I’d imagine the quilt’s dimensions are on the smaller to medium size though with just a 101g shell.

Dutch gives his pitch on the Argon 49 in this YouTube video. What’s more you can see a good up close of the Loco Libre Operator 20* quilt made with Argon 49.

[Eric Blanche]

I don’t think a .49oz shell is going to be a problem for those who are careful. I’ve made a couple karo quilts and have sent them off for use in the field with customers. I know of one that has seen a decent number of nights with no issues.  I know, very small sample size. To add, the hand feel of this particular fabric does not promote a feeling of durability or toughness at the least bit.

I personally have a .67oz material quilt that I’ve been using for well over 4000 miles and many nights of use with not a single tear, scrape, hole, puncture, fraying, seam issues, etc.

#dextergear

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