Navigators USA?

[Alex (he/him)]

Anyone have any experience with Navigators USA? I am looking for a progressive Scouting group that goes outside regularly for my 10yo daughter. She loves fishing and camping.

We’ve tried Girl Scouts but the bureaucracy and culture and patriarchy means the 2 troops we tried didn’t go outside. I know there are ones that do, somewhere in the country, but we’re losing hope on finding one here (Albuquerque, NM) that is a fit for our schedule. And one of them I became a leader and took them camping and everything but… SO much paperwork to do anything outside. I just don’t have the oomph to make it happen again.

I keep thinking about Scouts BSA, but with her being a girl, and having a girlfriend, and 2 gay dads, and none of us believing in any kind of God… I just don’t see a cultural fit. Yes, the gay thing has been changed in policy, but culture takes a while to change. And the God thing has not been changed in policy.

Anyway – there is a local Navigators chapter. Anyone know anything? How hard is it to take the chapter outside? I’m fine with doing all the legwork if that’s how it has to be, and there has to be some bureaucracy for kid safety. I’m just not going to do *a lot* of bureaucracy.

[Jerry Adams]

I had good experiences with Boy Scouts but I see your point, I don’t know that I’d have my kids involved now.  You sound like a great dad.

I googled “outdoor school new mexico” and there are several listings.  There’s an “outdoor school” in Portland that seems to be pretty good.

Boy Scouts depends totally on the individual group.  If you could communicate with a local group leader and told them your story, you might find the response acceptable.  You say “god” some but it’s not necessarily religious.  Sort of like saying the pledge of allegiance.  It’s always hard to get adults involved, so if you did, you might be appreciated and you could keep your eye on things.

If you watch a meeting and kids are the ones leading, rather than adults, that’s a good sign.  Probably applicable to other groups.

[Alex (he/him)]

Yeah… I’m pretty sure that at this age, and at the hyper local level of a den, we could find something in Scouts BSA that would work for her. It’s more the future that has me concerned.

What about the higher level stuff? Will people be as accepting there? Mostly of her as a girl and the queer stuff, but I see the religious stuff as kind of a window into that.

I read that a religious badge is required for some levels of Scouts BSA and that signing something saying that I acknowledge that a belief in God is best for kids is part of the signup up package.  Those requirements seems to me to bespeak an organization that’s still caught between the realities of many troops sponsored by churches & a society that’s rapidly secularizing and liberalizing. And plus – there’s just the whole sexism, outsider-ness, and I imagine danger of being a girl in a boy-dominated organization.

Anyway – I don’t really want to put our time and energy into an organization that hasn’t managed to get with the times yet. I think I’m much more excited to put my energy into Navigators or similar, even if I have to revive a defunct chapter. I really don’t need much support, just insurance, some guardrails, and people not getting in my way!

Thanks for responding! It has helped me think through what I think our family wants and needs!

[Matthew / BPL]

Alex, I have lots of thoughts on this topic. I sent a few of them to you via PM. 🙂

[baja bob]

You might go check out a local troop without making a lot of your assumptions.  My son is in scouts and I am not religious.  There is a minor religious aspect to it in my opinion.  We have campouts for one weekend per month.  They have a short Sunday service at the campout. They definitely are not pushing any sort of religion on anyone. I mostly ignore it.  I don’t know how religious it would be in New Mexico compared to Los Angeles

Our troop meetings are held at a religious school. A few times a year they request the scouts attend a service at the school church. My son and I have never attended   They have not held it against him

The troop has a fairly sizable number scouts who are girls.    The girls stay separate from the boys for the most part and do their own thing  We go to campouts together, but they have heir own program going.

The troop is run by very much older men who are pretty set in how they do things.  That being said, I will say m, based on your comments, the scouts have their program in place and it’s their program. Trying to come in and change it based on how you think they should run their program and what it should be about will get quite a bit of push back.

 

[Terran Terran]

Your 10 year old has a girlfriend?

[Alex (he/him)]

Yeah, I can’t say we were thrilled when she announced she was dating at 10. But on further reflection, we decided to be OK with it. Honestly I’m not sure it’s really different from having a best friend? I mean they are ten so holding hands and kissing is still gross to them.

There is lots of boy/girl couple drama in their grade. I did talk with my daughter about how being best friends might be similar with less drama, but it’s not what she wanted to do.

Kids of her generation all sexualities are doing “dating” – in a very tame way – earlier than they did in my generation, at least at her school. As long as the behaviors are age appropriate, I decided not to have a problem with the labeling of “girlfriend.”

[Alex (he/him)]

I realize I talked a lot about Scouts BSA, but I’ve gotten enough information and I’m not going to consider them further at this time. Thanks for y’all’s input, much appreciated!

[Dan]

I had not heard of Navigators previously, so thanks for mentioning it. I read a little of their website and it sounds like an appealing organization. I don’t have kids, but if I did, I would be interested enough to contact the local leader and get more information.

[Alex (he/him)]

Yeah, I did! :-) Have not heard back yet.

[Author]

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