My Work In Progress Philmont Personal Packing List

[Brad P]

https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

A few notes. All weights (and a few are not filled in) are manufacturer weights. I’ll measure actual weight and update. We’re going in 2019, so we haven’t yet begun shakedown trips.

Starred items are not yet acquired. I’m curious about your thoughts.

I’m happy to say almost all items were bought on significant sales or used.

[TAG in AZ]

Looks pretty similar to my list from last year — including the chair!
+ I think you can pick either the fleece & houdini or the xenon x. You just won’t need that much insulation. I carried a light down jacket for 11 days and only wore it only on top of Mt Baldy. You won’t be sitting around camp much in the evenings. Most days you’ll be heading for bed as the sun sets.
+ Also, you could take lighter sleeping clothes. Honestly, I slept in a t-shirt and underwear every night. With a 20 degree bag, I can’t imagine you’ll need the extra warmth…and, if you do, you have other layers you can pull on if necessary. I used a 30 degree EE quilt and didn’t have any issue — though, we didn’t camp above 10k feet.
+ I’d skip the camp shoes, but I realize that is a person preference for some.
+ I’d also suggest a pack liner/trash compactor bag or pack cover. If you go with the liner bag (I hate pack covers, but Philmont loves them), you might also bring along a big trash back to put over your pack at night. Unlike in past years, when you could put your pack under the dining fly in the evenings, the Rangers want you to leave your pack lying around camp. Me, I just put my nearly-empty pack inside my liner bag at night.

[Brad P]

All good suggsuggest and ones I’ve considered.

I left out the Gossamer Gear pack liner.

I’m skeptical about camp shoes, too.

I’ll go lighter on the sleep clothes.

Some miscellaneous items like trash bags are missing.

Thanks!

[Bruce Tolley]

I used a trash compacter bag as a pack liner for all two weeks of the Philmont trek. We have a lot of rain.

Unless you have some campsites above 9.5K I am not sure you need the 20 degree bag and puffy insulation. I took a Montbell down UL sweater and used it to augment my 35 degree bag on the few cold at our two highest camps.

We had so many stream crossings on our itinerary that the crew got into the habit of just crossing with their hiking shoes on. If you want to make it to the shooting sports and other popular events at the right time, there is no time to wait for 12 people to change shoes when you are crossing a stream every 15 or 20 minutes.

 

[Brad P]

I added the pack liner I have to the list and for now, removed the camp/stream crossing shoes. I was reluctant to have them on the list and haven’t purchased them yet.

I might skip the liner socks and just go with either the Darn Tough or get Injini socks.

For water, my theory was each scout would have 3 Smartwater one liter bottles, a Gatorade bottle and one 2 liter Platypus bottle. Since the crew is issued Gatorade powder, taking a Gatorade bottle will make it easy to determine which bottles have to go in the bear bag.

I’d prefer to have water spread out amongst the crew rather than make someone a pack mule for dry camps. Each crew member would have 5 liters plus the Gatorade bottle. Is that enough and the best way to arrange things?

As for the bag, I have a 29 degree long REI Flash bag. While it’s compact and relatively light, it’s still 28 ounces compared to about 15 ounces for the Zpacks bag. I have a sporting goods store cheapo I use for warmer nights, but it’s not good for backpacking. I’d rather not buy yet another bag, but I always have my eye open for deals.

I was thinking of having my son use the REI Flash even though he’s short. I also have my eye open for deals on a bag for him. His car camping synthetic bag is too big and heavy for backpacking.

Philmont does a good job of scaring you into thinking you need warmer stuff. I got the Rab Xenon X used on eBay (all the way from Ukraine) since it’s synthetic. If everything gets wet, it would be better than my other puffy option, a Uniqlo down jacket.

The Fitfort is a GoPro knockoff. It’s tiny, but I haven’t weighed it or the accessories I’d need. I used it snorkeling on the Monsters of Rock cruise last week and will take it to Sea Base this summer. Pretty decent and just $60 on Amazon. I might want a zoom camera, too. My Sony A6000 is probably too heavy. We’ll see.

This is a work in progress, and I greatly appreciate advice from experienced Philmonters. The SWD backpack arrived yesterday and looks pretty slick. 50 liters internal and 10 liters external should be good if I keep this packing list light and compact.

[TAG in AZ]

RE: Water – you will be able to plan water much better once you have your Intinerary. The biggest factor will be the number of dry camps you have. We had a dry camp at Shaeffer’s Pass with a side hike to the Tooth of Time, so I made sure everyone had at least 6 liters of water capacity.

Your pack should be more than sufficient. I carried the HMG 3400 (55L+9.8L) and had plenty of space for my stuff, 3+ days of food and my share of crew gear (which is another conversation). Your pack will be a start contrast to some of the leader packs you see on the trail. I saw one guy with an 85L monster with extra gear hanging off the back. I truly felt sorry for him, but I didn’t have the heart to preach the ultralight religion to him — if carrying that thing for 11 days didn’t bring him around, then he is truly lost.

[Brad P]

I bought a Gregory Baltoro 75 before I got the lightweight religion. It got great reviews and is well built. But heavy.

I spoke to one of our older scouts at his Eagle ceremony. He went to Philmont prior to me and my son joining the troop with a previous scoutmaster I did not know. The scout said the scoutmaster’s pack weighed over 70 pounds with all gear and water. Yikes!!

On digital paper and factoring my lack of experience, I feel pretty good with my pre-shakedown gear list. The struggle will be finding affordable options for our scouts since we’ve been a car camping troop since I joined. They need backpacking sleeping bags, etc. The troop is looking to buy backpacking tents at least for shakedowns since the tents most scouts have are 3 person and heavier than ideal.

[Jason T]

Your list looks good so far. We did trek 17 in 2016 and had a blast.
We had a full crew of 12 and everyone had 1 hard sided water bottle (because they are almost impossible to break), Two smartwater or Gatorade bottle and then a 48oz Nalgene wide mouth soft side Cantene. It rolls up small and with 12 of them we had plenty of water for dry camps and the load was nicely distributed to everyone.

I brought my 40F bag in 2016 as from a previous trip there in 2013, I knew that my 20F bag is overkill for the temps you will be running into. Slept in a tee-shirt and thin long underwear to keep the funk off the bag. I have a 40F EE rev quilt and might take that when we go in 2019. Just bring a hat to cover your ears at night!

Love my chair and will definitely bring that again, I also brought a small stove. I like tea in the morning and suffered the 10 oz hit. Camp shoes are so nice to change into when you get to camp. But that’s a total lux item. I like my Teva’s but probably will not bring them this time as I’ll be using trail runners and not boots.

I do use a pack cover. It’s so dusty there, it’s nice to spread it out as a groundcloth and put your gear on it sometimes.

I’ve been rocking the Gregory Baltoro 75 since that first trip in 2013. It’s a heavy monster. But now that all my other gear is upgraded, I’m in the hunt for a smaller, lighter backpack. The Kelty 50 that I have will probably be too small. We’ve had to carry 5 days of food at times and that takes up a ton of room!

The trek that the scouts pick will be a big indicator on how much you need to tweak the gear list. In 2013, we did trek 31. 11 days of no shower and huge miles. For that trip I think I packed a pound of ibuprofen!

Hope you have an amazing time!
J.

[Brad P]

Sigh, now there’s another one trying to convince me to buy yet another sleeping bag. You might have to contribute to the Brad divorce GoFundMe account!! :)

[Bruce Tolley]

@ Brad P. RE: water

There are a lot of ideas about water storage in the past BPL threads which can be searched.  I think spreading the load is best.  5 liters per Scout might be optimistic. All I can say is practice your method and count liters consumed before you get to Philmont.  Depending on the amount of training each member of the crew has done, by day 3 or 4 of the trek, you might find some of your Scouts will volunteer to carry extra water and some members of the crew will need to be offloaded.

 

As noted above, If you have  dry camp, you need storage for water for dinner, the following mornings breakfast, and enough water to get the crew to the first source of water.  The Philmont water board in Basecamp also posts locations of streams and springs that are sometimes relatively close to the dry camps.

BTW Philmont hands out more than enough chlorine dioxide tablets.

[Bob Shuff]

First timer going to Philmont next year.  Correct me if my comments are off-base.

The Zpacks 20 deg “quilt” is less than a lb and probably super compressible.  I would go with that unless you sleep really warm.  It’s easy to vent a quilt or just push the down down or too the side when warmer.  I wouldn’t buy another quilt within 10 deg and I wouldn’t use  > 40 (unless you sleep really warm).

My friend who went in 2017 said if they were going into a dry camp they would eat their cooked meal during the day near a water source.  Then they would eat a lunch or breakfast that didn’t require much water for cooking and cleanup at camp in place of the dinner.  I guess it depends on your itinerary.  He also said they had one long day with side trips for a peak and a service project and they came close to running out of water.  I like the idea of everyone having some extra capacity with a bladder 2-4 quarts when needed.  That makes it easier to redistribute on the trail.

I’m getting ready to post my list for 2018, inspired by Brad P and the constructive comments.  Good stuff!

[Jay L]

As noted above, If you have dry camp, you need storage for water for dinner, the following mornings breakfast, and enough water to get the crew to the first source of water.

Most crews will eat dinner for lunch heading in to a dry camp to save carrying that water.  As I recall, in 2016 there was only one breakfast that needed water – if that happens to be the morning at a dry camp, just swap it for another day.

 

[Brad P]

Yeah, I’m going to keep the Zpacks bag and just open it if it’s too warm.

The making dinner at lunch near water is something I’ve read many times and sounds like a great idea.

[Bruce Tolley]

Yes wwapping dinner for lunch saves:

1. the water for cleaning up the pots
2. the water for hydrating the freeze dried food

So maybe you save a couple of liters by having dinner at lunch. For a dry camp you still need water 1) to hydrate the crew, any toilet or hygiene needs between lunch and bed time and 2) to hydrate the crew at breakfast time and between departure and reaching the first source of water.  I  personally brewed up two or three cups of Peet’s coffee every morning.

There are several rules of thumb about how much water a person needs just for hydration.  I have heard 4 liters per 24 hours.  I have developed my own metrics for my own trips but then people differ and water consumption changes with exertion levels and weather. You can calculate water needs during your training hikes but the dry camp does not mean you need zero water,

Cheers

[Bob Shuff]

We get a lot of practice out here in SoCal drought-land.  Many dry camps and few water along the trail (especially this year I worry).  1 gallon (or 4 liters) is our rule of thumb for an overnight campout.

Many scouts – especially younger ones don’t drink enough.  Our ASMs are talking about imposing the confirmed-he-drank at every break rule, and asking scouts to carry a water bottle for that purpose – because you can’t tell if they are drinking or not if they have a bladder.  This has gotten ugly in our local mountains, and the signs come too late.  It could be worse in Philmont.

When it’s hot and they are drinking, we’ve gotten close to running dry with a gallon.  Bruce Tolley’s comments on considering the next morning are spot-on.  My current plan is to have (2) 1-L smart water bottles, (1) Gatorade or Nalgene for dink mixes), and at least a 2-L dirty water bladder.  I just got a Cnoc Vecto that I’ve read positive reviews about: https://cnocoutdoors.com/products/vecto-water-container.

Philmont’s packing list suggest every crew member has (4) quarts then the crew carries (2-3) 2.5 Gallon collapsible containers.  My simple math suggests another 2.5-quarts per crew member or 6.5 quarts total.  That seems like a conservative or sound guideline, and it seems like I’m about 40-oz short.  I should probably add another 2 liter bladder (Sawyer and Platypus).  You might get lighter 1-gallon containers or sturdier ones like the 4 or 10 liter dromedaries, but my suggestion is to split it up between 2 liter containers in case one breaks, or you only need one, or because it’s just easier to fit 2 separate containers.  I’m a stickler for packing the water outside the pack, so I need something I can lash on somewhere.

I’ve heard from scouts about carrying 1 gallon jugs by hand from the last water source.  I’ve never heard any of them say they would like to do that again.

 

[Brad P]

Yeah, carrying 1 gallon jugs in any manner at Philmont is decidedly NOT joyful. Spread the misery! :)

Besides, if there’s a failure in a container, it’s less impact if the whole crew is carrying water.

[Brad P]

My Superior Wilderness Designs Long Haul 50 arrived this week  Today I did some Philmont training with it.

I should put actual gear in it rather than use three 10 pound weights. It carried pretty well even with poorly distributed weight.

[Jeffrey Peters]

For water each scout usually had 4 liters of water. We had each scout carry an extra two liter platypus for dry camps.  We also had two filters with us. Philmont wants you to use the MSR tabs to treat water and we did. We were hiking during the thunderstorm season and all of the streams were high and stained. It was nice to be able to clear up the water before we treated it. We also had two on the crew who hiked in  boots. They got wet the second day and stayed that way the rest of the trip. Most of the crew wore trail runners and they dried out quickly.

[Brad P]

I was thinking of the crew bringing 1-2 filters (BeFree, etc.) to clean up any funky looking water prior to treatment.

I’m sold on trail runners. I’m not sure our Scoutmaster and some parents are. I plan on sending out some articles on the subject, but leaving it up to parents to make the final decision. I’ll just ask that their footwear fit well, be a quality product, be light and go with synthetic.

[Bob Shuff]

My rule on backpack treks has been boots, or trail runners+trekking poles.  I’m sure some can go without the poles, but I think it’s a good compromise.

One of our scouts wanted to go with vans last year, and the trek leader didn’t allow it, so it didn’t make it to a ranger to weigh in.

What/how do rangers enforce the rules and guidelines, such as tent size, cook method, shoe/boot selection?. I got the impression from the workshop that they encouraged lightweight backpacking techniques and were more flexible for adult advisors, with a few hard rules.  They seemed like they would treat the scouts more uniformly and traditionally.

[Brad P]

They might encourage lightweight, but by standards about 20 years behind the times.

I understand some of their rules are due to the massive number of people passing through the area. I think their interpretation of the patrol method is a bit rigid. I’d prefer they teach better backpacking techniques as no sane rational backpacker would include two 8 quart pots in the gear list.

It’s their property and their rules. I don’t want to play lawyerball with them which would also set a bad example with the scouts.

Within their rules, we’ll do our best to make it a safe, enjoyable, lightweight experience.

[Brad P]

I’m getting closer to locking down my gear list.  Lighter Pack Gear List for Philmont

We only have 2 adults right now and a total crew of 8.  The other adult will likely tent with his son.  His son has diabetes and sometimes he needs to check on him at night.  This addresses any YPT issues.  At our troop activities, his son tents alone for this reason.  If we get another adult (21 year old former scout in our troop who has worked at Philmont), I could take my Duplex instead of my Aeon, but with a small crew, even than might not be necessary.

Things I’m debating:

1. Whether to take my Helinox Chair Zero. My overall gear is light enough to justify it. Right now, my GG Thinlight pad serves many purposes. I wrap it around my tent which is strapped  on the outside of my pack to protect it and I need some place to store it, anyway.  It’s a sit pad (which might make the chair unnecessary). Provides protection for my sleep pad, a little extra R value, is an emergency sleep pad, floor wax and dessert topping (old folks will get it).
2. I have a fleece, wind jacket and puffy.  The puffy will be too warm most of the time, but with a 32 degree quilt and climbing Baldy, I might want it.  The fleece and wind jacket might work better for early morning hiking.  Packing a fear?
3. We’re doing a cruise to Norway with the family and one excursion is kayaking in a fjord.  I want a GoPro for that and it might be a good option for Philmont with the pole attachment.  I’d love to do one of those time-lapse videos of the stars, but that eats up batteries.
4. Will they have a conniption if I wear Shamma sandals just to air out my feet in camp and not for stream crossings, etc.?  I got these water shoes for my son for camp shoes.

[Jeffrey Peters]

I would take the fleece and wind jack or the Puffy but not both. I took a puffy and I don’t remember using it during the day. I used it frequently at night and in the morning. We camped one night on Comanche Peak and it was cold. I don’t think you will have a problem with your sandals. At base camp and on the trail you will see a lot of rangers wearing sandals with socks.

[Brad P]

At base camp and on the trail you will see a lot of rangers wearing sandals with socks.

So they hire a lot of Florida retirees.  :)

I guess Injinji liners would be an option there.

[Jay L]

Took my sit pad and my Helinox Ground Chair on my last trek.  Sit pad is good for short stops but the ground chair was worth every ounce for lunch stops and afternoons in camp, waiting for our turn at program.

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