Massdrop Announces Dan Durston X Mid Tent: 2 People, 2 hiking poles, 28 oz, $199

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks Brad!

Folks without trekking poles could use straight poles like those offered by Ruta Locura but certainly some of the advantage is lost over a more traditional poled tent, since two of these would add 5-6oz.

[Monte Masterson]

Looks like a sound design Dan. The biggest drawback to mids is the way the canopy is so close to your head and feet when you lay down. This 2 pole design obviously negates most of that. It’s also a side entry, which makes it way more desirable than front entry tents.

You say you’re not very at good at sewing Dan, too bad. You’re an intelligent man. I’ll bet if you jumped in with both feet and practiced sewing silnylon every spare minute, you’d probably be doing a pretty good job in a about 6 weeks. Then you wouldn’t be beholden to some Chinese factory that cranks em out (not that they do bad work) and you wouldn’t have an 8 month wait time. The wait is a deal buster for most potential buyers IMO. And you could have all the instructional help you’d ever need here on backpackinglight.

I think a 7d canopy option and an added choice of a stealthy olive drab color would greatly increase interest in the tent. The 7d material is more expensive, but it would get the weight down to something ultralighters would be more apt to jump on. Most would pay an extra $60 to cut 5 oz off the weight. The GG One and Two are of course 7d. I’d keep the inner a 20d high hh.

Just opinions mind you. Good innovative design.

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks for the comments Monte.

I could sew some up – I’m actually alright at sewing, just really slow – but I don’t like sewing. I only have the patience to sew one of something. I could hire other people but managing that would be a full time thing and a big financial commitment. The Massdrop thing isn’t necessarily long term (and it’s Vietnam not China). Massdrop has the rights to sell the design for a short while and even with the 8 month wait, they’re likely bringing it to market in substantial volumes more quickly than I could by starting my own shop (hiring, training, sourcing fabrics, getting machines working etc). If it’s popular, I could continue with Massdrop, outsource the manufacturing myself (locally or elsewhere) or start a manufacturing company. I can’t see myself starting a manufacturing company though because only the product design is of interest to me.

Indeed the wait is a deal beaker for some folks. Understandable. It’ll be ready for next hiking season but I can understand not wanting to spend funds this far in advance. I hope Massdrop will order more tents than we have orders so some will be offered in April when they arrive. Depending on how many they order, it might be hard to get one in April though because 900 people had already expressed interest on Massdrop before the 8 month wait was announced. So if there’s only an extra 50 tents they might be gone quickly.

I’m not sold on GG’s 7D fabric. Nothing against it, but the X-Mid’s sil/PU 20D poly is 1.24oz/yd finished weight and has no sag in the rain and an awesome HH. I don’t know what GG’s 7D nylon weighs but I’d guess around 1.0oz.yd finished weight. If so, that would save 2.5 oz off the fly but give up durability, waterproofness and add sag. I don’t think that’s particularly attractive. I would like to do a version with cuben/DCF. With that I could easily get the weight under 20oz for a double wall or about 15oz for a single wall but that’s a ways off and obviously would cost a lot more.

It’s not really fair to compare the X-Mid to the GG One since the X-Mid is a double wall so the GG One is obviously lighter (21.65 vs 27.9oz). But to do so anyways finds that the X-Mid is 6.25oz heavier but in exchange you get double wall protection, a fly with full coverage, tougher zippers, a lot more vestibule area, more headroom, more durable, waterproof and no sag fabric and a much simpler pitch. A single wall X-Mid would still offer most of these benefits at a much closer weight.

[Ryan Smith]

9 months!! That’s a pretty big ask of consumers. Holy Moly.  Probably a no-go for me this time around, but I will have to think about it some more.  Best of luck, Dan!

Ryan

[Katherine .]

In my perfect world Dan partners up with Locus Gear for the DCF version.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“9 months!! That’s a pretty big ask of consumers.”
Only 8.3! Or if you join on the last day of the drop it’s only 7.7 months :)

Yeah it’s longer than anyone would like. At least it’ll be ready for hiking next year. I described the reasons earlier but it’s almost entirely the manufacturing time since the manufacturer is busy so large orders take about 180 days right now.

“In my perfect world Dan partners up with Locus Gear for the DCF version.”
That would be awesome. I love LG’s craftsmanship.

[Monte Masterson]

Finished weight of most 7d silnylons is 0.80 oz per square yd , so the weight savings on the X would be closer to 5 oz. And given the same weight, nylon is stronger than silpoly. I’ve made tarps out of the 7d Rockywoods and I don’t see where the stretch is all that bad.

Most people just won’t spend the money on DCF.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Indeed you are correct regarding the weight of 7D silnylon. It would save 5oz off the fly. I’m still hesitant with regards to the durability and potential sag of that fabric, but I have seen some positive reviews of the GG tents that use it. The stretch is fine, but after using polys, it would be hard to go back to any sag. But I’ll keep it in mind and do some more research on it.

Considering the X-Mid is only 6.3oz heavier than the GG One and 5oz of that is the tougher material, I think that says a lot about the efficiency of the X-Mid geometry. A hypothetical 7D X-Mid would be 1.3oz heavier but a full double wall shelter (vs single wall), simpler 4 stake pitch, more storm worthy with a full coverage fly and have more vestibule area. Designing around a rectangle eliminates a lot of seams which adds up, and it gives a space efficient shape.

[Sam Farrington]

Congratulations, Dan. You have produced a really well thought out tent with many features not all found in similar tents. I agree that the 7D may not be suited to a tent with a number of seams going into a multi-dimensional outer. Richard’s tests suggest that this tent will be far more durable than anything similar made of 7D, and yet still come in under 2 lbs.

Working on a tent currently and wanting to use the 7D, I ultimately decided the vestibules that get a lot of wear (doors, vents, zips etc) should have a higher 15D
denier fabric, and left the occupied portion of the tent for a seamless 7D outer fly that could easily be replaced whenever it wore out. For a polyester tent, with little or no sag, I think you were very wise to go for a higher denier material, especially with the quality indicated by Richard’s tests. You could have gone for much lower denier polyester, obtained a flashy SUL weight, and left folks with something with much less durability and useful life. Hope it all works out with the manufacturer, as the product appears to be well worth the $.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks Sam!

Here’s a couple more photos to show the inside and a few other angles better.

As shown below, you can easily store a pack out of the way in the corner of the vestibule and still have plenty more vestibule area for cooking, shoes etc. Also note how well covered the inner is from falling rain. Even in medium rains you can leave the doors rolled up. The vertical inner wall makes it extremely easy to step inside.

Even with a tall hat on, there’s a lot of headroom.

A little hard to see, but there is another grosgrain loop for a stake point near the center of this side (and every side) which is directly below the peak, so you can really button it down if desired.

[JCH]

Damn nice tent Dan, I’m very impressed.  I’d be very hard pressed indeed to give up the space in my Duplex (even though I use it as a one-person shelter), but your design is very tempting.

At 6’1″ 220lb I find 1P shelters to be quite difficult in prolonged rain…no room to get in and get unpacked, and then get packed and get out.  I’d like to see a shelter designed/sized specifically to tackle the issue of ingress and unpacking in the rain while still intended for 1P use.  A 1.5 or 1.75 person shelter if you will.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Interesting design. I assume it has two “eyelid” vents and two doors – or at least an inner door to access the vestibule. how about lower vents other than doors?

I like that it has sufficient grosgrain loops on the fly hems to nail it down in high winds. This helps greatly to prevent flapping and the attendant wear and noise. Truly, all good fly tents need them 360 degrees.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

JCH
If you’re looking for enough space inside the inner to come inside wet, get changed and then move over to a dry area – yeah the X-Mid doesn’t have that much space. But if you’re looking for abundant vestibule area so you can shove your pack in there, get inside the inner and then casually unpack your pack and sort wet stuff in the vestibule, dry stuff inside, then the X-Mid do well. Floor area is about average for a 1P tent but well above average headroom. Vestibule area is well above average.

Eric
Yes it has two vents, two fly doors and two inner doors. Both sides of the tent are the same.

For lower vents, you can control how high off the ground the fly is pitched (via the length of cord at the corners, so you can go from basically zero gap to about 3″ gap all around the base. And then if you want even more ventilation you can leave the doors rolled up since the fly nicely overhangs the inner even if the fly doors are rolled open.

[bradmacmt]

If you’re looking for enough space inside the inner to come inside wet, get changed and then move over to a dry area – yeah the X-Mid doesn’t have that much space. But if you’re looking for abundant vestibule area so you can shove your pack in there, get inside the inner and then casually unpack your pack and sort wet stuff in the vestibule, dry stuff inside, then the X-Mid do well. Floor area is about average for a 1P tent but well above average headroom. Vestibule area is well above average.

I think that’s a perfect summary based on the photos you’ve posted. I have to say this tent really appeals to me, even with the added weight of a couple of carbon poles and a Tyvek footprint (ideal to use under a bag on those nights when a tent isn’t wanted). Also, the ability to erect a tent with the inner attached so as to keep it as dry as possible while pitching in rain can’t really be overstated. And, I have to believe the above average interior volume created by the fly has to help mitigate condensation relative to other smaller volume 1P tents.

[JCH]

JCH
If you’re looking for enough space inside the inner to come inside wet, get changed and then move over to a dry area – yeah the X-Mid doesn’t have that much space.

Dan – Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for.  The Duplex allows me to setup (mostly dry…the doors don’t have zippers so they can open a little while setting up), climb in to the “wet side” (while wearing rain gear), take off wet gear/clothes, unpack into the “dry side” (and/or vestibule), then mop up the “wet side”.  I’ve never been able to develop a system that has the same results with 1P tent.

[Nathan Meyerson]

Dan! This looks great, congratulations! I’ll definitely turn some folks on to this before the drop is over.

 

Hope your spring is treating you well!

 

Cheers,

Nathan

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks Nathan! Glad you like it.

Everyone: I’m off hiking for the next 10 days so answers to any questions will be a bit delayed.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Here’s a couple photos from 9 days of recent use that show the inner pitched without the fly. In the photo below you can also see the ridgeline pocket which is handy for holding a headlamp for reading, an alarm, glasses etc. The pocket is split down the middle (sewn into two halves) so it doesn’t hang open too much if you put moderately heavy objects in. The nice thing with having the pocket along the ridgeline is that it’s basically in the same spot regardless of which way you are sleeping, so you don’t have to think about where the pocket is when you’re pitching the tent (or more likely, pitch the tent only to discover the pocket is at the end you don’t want it).

As you can see, lots of headroom. The inner peaks are 43″ high and most of this height is retained across the length of the inner, so you can sit up anywhere inside. This is about 3″ taller than the TT Notch, whereas any traditionally poled tent in this weight class is quite a bit lower still. For example, the MSR Carbon Reflex 1 and Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 both have a single high point with a max of 34 – 38″. Headroom/living space should feel very similar to the generous TT SS1, as the ridgeline of the X-Mid fly is slightly (46″ vs 48″ fly peak height) but covers a longer span of the interior.

For comparison, below is just the inner of the TT SS2. Some differences to note are that the X-Mid ridgeline is quite a bit more diagonal, so it preserves the height over a longer span and also allows larger doors. Also, since the X-Mid doesn’t rely on Pitch Lock corners, the inner can be fully pitched without the fly. With the StratoSpire, two of the inner corners are normally connected to the upper portion of the Pitch Lock corners, so without the fly two of the corners hang loose (e.g. the bottom left one in the photo below).

Pitching just the inner is about as easy as possible. The inner has light buckles (high quality ITW ones) at the peaks for a solid and adjustable connection to the fly (e.g. if you pitch the fly high, you can loosen these so the floor isn’t pulled up). To pitch the inner alone, you remove the guylines from the fly, affix them to the inner (e.g. clove hitch below the buckle) and then tie a little loop for the pole tip (e.g. slip knot) and then stake out.

I’ll also mention that the fly guidelines really aren’t necessary for normal conditions when you are pitching the entire tent. A design goal was to tune the angles so it pitches robustly with only four stakes like a single pole mid. I’m pleased with how this turned out. Even in moderately windy conditions, the tent is quite robust with four stakes. I’ve yet to encounter conditions where I would prefer to deploy the peak guylines. My normal pitch is 4 stakes + one light ti skewer at the main door I’ll be using to hold the small side.

So you could remove the peak guylines and save 11g (0.4oz) to lower the fly + inner weight to 27.5 oz. I’ll keep them included on the shelter, but it wouldn’t be crazy for owners to remove them and even snip the LineLoc3’s at the peaks to save even more weight.

[Franco Darioli]

With the StratoSpire, two of the inner corners are normally connected to the upper portion of the Pitch Lock corners, so without the fly two of the corners hang loose (e.g. the bottom left one in the photo below).

they don’t have to …

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Fair enough. Indeed you can partially insert a long stake and then connect the pitch lock cord to the top of that stake. It doesn’t look like it pulls up the corner as high as the pitch lock normally would, but it’s certainly much closer.

[California Packrafting]

After 10 years of backpacking in the Sierra I finally had to set up camp in the rain. I use a TT Notch. I was in a 10k basin, no tree cover, and the only flat ground was on decomposed granite.

What’s the strategy here? I thought I would take the inner out, set up the fly, and get under to take wet clothes off and sort gear (and maybe cook) and then set up inner. But I realized that was a crouched, dirty muddy mess. I put down an emergency blanket but setting up the inner was a nightmare – I had to crouch down and deal with the mitten hooks with cold fingers.

I think I should have just left the inner connected, and gotten in and sorted gear as you describe. But, with the x-mid, what’s your strategy for getting out of rain gear without getting the floor of the inner soaking wet?  Is there any combination of unbuckling part of the inner and crouching contortionist moves that helps with this?

[Franco Darioli]

Asothane ;

try this at home.Set up the Notch with the inner attached as normal.

Get in , undo the apex clip near to you and push the inner back.

(also undo the other apex clip if you still need more room)

BTW, you twist the mitten hook in (or out) of the rings/D Clips. There is no need to press the small tongue in as some attempts to do.

[California Packrafting]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Franco,</p>
That strategy makes some sense, and i tried that first. But I would still get the inner wet- unclipping the near alex vent leaves the floor in place as it’s stretched tight against the ground. So I proceeded to unclip it all, which was a mistake. W the notch I think I’ll just plan on carrying a small pack towel that I can wipe up the inner w if needed in rain.

I’ve watched your mitten clip clip, and practiced that at home. I’m sorry but it doesn’t work in practice – It still requires two hands. I’m replacing the mitten hooks with something I can easily use one handed with cold and wet hands.

[Brad Rogers]

“After 10 years of backpacking in the Sierra I finally had to set up camp in the rain.”

Ten years and never had to set up in the rain!!! You really do have good weather there don’t you.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

After 10 years….I finally had to set up camp in the rain
Yeah you do have it good down there in the Sierra’s.

What’s the strategy here?
With any tent you’ve got two basic strategies: get changed inside the main area of the tent, or get changed before jumping in.

I usually do the former. So I set up the tent, toss my pack etc in the vestibule and then if it’s raining hard I’ll quickly whip off my rain jacket before getting in, drop my rain pants to my knees and then sit in the inner tent butt first with my feet still outside so my wet rain pants and shoes are still in the vestibule. Then I take that wet stuff off completely before getting fully inside so I don’t get much water in the tent. A few drips will get in so I mop that up with my shirt that is probably half wet anyways – or a sock that is for sure wet already.

But you’re mostly asking about doing the latter: finding a way to get changed out of your wet stuff before getting in the inner. If you wanted to do this with the X-Mid, it would work about as well as you could reasonably expect because the X-Mid is generous in both the height of the tent and the size of the vestibules, plus the inner uses buckles rather than mitten clips at the peaks (see picture a few posts up) for a solid connection that can be opened, close and adjusted with just one hand (it still uses mitten clips at the four bottom corners because 6 buckles gets heavy). I haven’t tried this, but you could open the fly door, reach in and unclip the closest inner peak buckle. Since the fly overhangs the inner, it’ll stay dry unless your storm is serious. That would give you a lot of space, but you’d probably end up dripping water onto the inner as you get changed which might kinda kill the whole point of not getting into the inner.

So what I’d do first is unclip one corner of the inner before opening the fly and unbuckling one peak. If you unclip the corner of the inner that is in the corner of the fly (so on the left side of the door) and then unclip the nearest peak, the inner would push way back and you’d have a ton of space to get changed (half the entire tent). I’m not entirely sure how you’d proceed from here but your best bet might be to reclip the inner peak, crawl in and then re-clip it back to the corner. You’d probably want to try this at home once or twice if you hope to execute it smoothly in the field.

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