Linelocs vs. knots?

[CS]

Hi!

I recently bought a new tent, and for the first time I’ve encountered all these bits of plastic on the guy lines, with not much explication on how to use them (tent is the LanShan Pro 2). I’m inclined to just cut them off and tie my own knots since that’s more comfortable for me, but thought I’d check if there’s some up side to them I’m missing since I don’t know how to use them and am not quite finding tutorials on them.

 

Thanks!

[BlackHatGuy]

If you’re used to using, and prefer, knots I don’t see any real reason to switch to the linelocs. For folks like me who aren’t very good at knots, linelocs are easier, so I use them. Lots of folks don’t. The engineer types on here can give you a better answer, but I don’t see any specific benefit to linelocs vs knots if you’re competent at knots.

[JCH]

Assuming you are talking about lineloc 3s, there are lots of videos on youtube that demonstrate their use.

But yeah, what rubmybelly said.

[Philip Tschersich]

[CS]

Ah thank you, that makes sense. And thanks for the link to the video, I’m not sure why I wasn’t finding any before, I was searching for the name of my tent and lineloc I guess. :)

[Philip Tschersich]

No problem. I like using line-locs but in high wind I’ll sometimes throw in a half hitch like in the video just to keep them from creeping, depending on how slippery your guy-line is.

[Iago Vazquez]

If you are competent with knots, the main advantage of hardware could be in really cold weather, as hardware can typically be adjusted with gloves on.

[J R]

For me it’s more about the cord — if it’s regular guy line that can hold a knot well I’ll use a taut line hitch. But some other cord doesn’t hold a knot well, either because of small diameter, cord stiffness, cord sheath slickness, etc, and that’s where I prefer a line loc (they come in micro sizes too).

[Kevin M]

Line locks should be fairly simple to use, they just slid up and down to tighten and loosen the guy line, and should be tied so they automatically grip the line and hold it in the position that you move it too. As people have said, this makes it much easier and quicker when you’re wearing gloves or you’re fingers are cold and a bit stiff and numb.  Also makes it a bit quicker if you need to jump out in the middle of the night and quickly adjust, rather than having to untie and retie knots etc.

The most common ones are usually the little triangle shaped ones as shown in this video (these are big chunky ones, on a backpacking tent its normally the same design but a good bit smaller)….

I’ve got small versions of those little triangle ones with 2mm dyneema cord for my guys and they work great.

The ones you seem to have, linked to in the other video a few posts above are a different design, I hadn’t seen them before, but also seem to work well, long as they grip the cord OK then should be much quicker to adjust than knots.

k

[JCH]

The main downfall of Lineloc 3s is that if you use a guyline whose diameter is just barely big enough for the lineloc to grip it will work well until there is stress put on it, like high winds.  When it slips the cord abrades a groove into the lineloc and it will never hold again…at least with that size cord.

Solution: use the proper size cord for the size of lineloc :)

[Brad P]

Skurka explains it well. You’ll want longer guylines for this knot system.

[Bonzo]

Personally, I don’t see a huge amount of difference between knots and mechanical tensioners of any sort: they both do the same job.  I agree that tensioners can be easier to use when it’s cold, and I think that some of them can also be a little less prone to freezing stuck than a knot; depending on the design, there can be fewer ice-friendly crevices than most knots offer.  My biggest point of selection between the two is holding power; certain knots simply don’t hold well in certain lines, and some lines don’t work well in tensioners.

Side note: my favorite tensioners to date are made from plastic buckets…but I have a small scrap of carbon sheet that I plan to use to make a few more, if I don’t come up with something better to do with it.

[Brad P]

I’ve done the Skurka knots with my hammock tarp to large rocks or bushes. That’s a lot more secure than stakes.

[Alex V]

Has anyone tried the system detailed in the Skurka video with fishing line? If so do the knots hold well? I’m intrigued by the use of fishing line in this post https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/zpacks-pocket-tarp-w-doors-unboxing-and-1-0-oz-hack/

[James Marco]

Short lengths of #20 fishing line works pretty well. But, anything longer than 3′-4′ turns into a mess of knots/tangles. You can elect to wrap the line up carefully at every take down, but this gets old, fast. Stiffer is better in small lines (between .5mm and 2.0mm.) they tend to tangle less, even if they don’t tie off as neatly.
IFF you have linelocs, use them till they wear out., then replace them with a simple loop. Line from a stake can be added with a simple truckers-hitch. Actually, maybe a half ounce lighter, overall.

[Matthew / BPL]

@Alex V – YMMV but I’d rather have cordage that doesn’t tangle at a couple grams heavier. My long term favorite for tarps without Lineloc 3s is MLD’s thin orange stuff but I recently picked up some cord from Paria that seems noticeably stiffer so that might be my new favorite.

[Bonzo]

That Paria cord looks nice; 1.5mm is a little small for me to manage in anything but ideal conditions, though.  I use the 2.5mm Glowire for that reason: it’s stiff enough to not tangle easily and I can usually get my knots and tensioners set up correctly even if it’s rainy/snowy/icy/windy/unpleasanty.

[YoPrawn]

“it’s stiff enough to not tangle easily ”

I think this is the biggest factor for me personally. When there are 6-10 guy lines hanging off a tent that gets packed up and torn down, making sure the lines don’t tangle into knots is critical. The heavier stiffer lines just pull apart so easily even when they look like a rat nest.

Also, I think if one does wish to use thinner line with line locks, it’s not at all hard to double the line into itself in high winds to hold the lock closed. Just a couple little loops back onto itself with the loose end and it won’t slide out without breaking.

[Matthew / BPL]

Yep Glowire is awesome. If you are going to tie knots the 2mm is delightful to work with. I just switched the cordage on the backyard pandemic hammock tarp from Zing It to 2mm Glowire and it was so nice to tie.

1.5mm Glowire would be dope.

[Bonzo]

1.5mm Glowire would be dope.

How much of a difference would there be between that and the 2mm?

[Matthew / BPL]

Area of a 1.5mm circle = 1.767 sq/mm

Area of a 2mm circle = 3.142 sq/mm

Cross section of the smaller line is 56% the size of the larger line. I don’t know how that would effect the weight given this type of line has core and sheathing fibers.

[Rex Sanders]

Roger also likes genuine Clamcleat CL266  “Mini Line-Loks” made for sailboats. At 0.74 grams each, not much weight penalty versus knots. For 16 guylines that’s 12 grams (0.4 ounces).

Taking extra guyline to tie fancy knots adds some weight. TANSTAAFL.

These tiny Clamcleats are a tad hard to find in the good old U.S.A. Dutchware used to carry them. Try Litesmith, Fisheries Supply, and Duckworks (“mini”).

— Rex

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