Linelocs instead of ladder locs for pack straps

[Patrick W]

I’m designing a pack which I hope to build next month. Well,  designing in the sense that I am stealing the best ideas from other packs lve owned. Or seen.

So I am thinking about using lineloc 3 and 3mm line on the shoulder straps. This would be replacing webbing and a ladder loc.  I think the line will be lighter, but I’m wondering how much load a lineloc 3 can take before it fails. Anyone have experience with this?

[Franco Darioli]

I have a ULA pack with line locs. I have loaded up to 15 kg of fruit and veggies in it (it was used as my market bag) .

The line would slip through the loc but a half n hitch fixed that.

[R]

Last winter I made a UL pack and went for cord on everything I possibly could.  Except the shoulder straps – didn’t think they’d hold.

Everything else works, but feels a bit fidgety.  I don’t think I’ll ever do cord and hook for the main buckle on a hip belt again, but I would use cord and linelocs again for hip tensioners and load lifters, and possibly the top compression.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/sewing-help-skipping-stitches/#post-3449372

Hmm – if you put a plastic D-ring at the base of your pack where the shoulder strap webbing normally attaches, then run your cord from a fixed loop at the end of your shoulder strap, down through the D-ring, then back up to a lineloc at the end of the shoulder strap, you get a pulley effect and reduce the tension by a half.  But you’ve added a second piece of plastic and doubled your cord length – not sure how that works out on the scale.

 

[Daryl and Daryl]

I’ve done similar experimenting.

I’ve always gone back to webbing and ladder locks.  My current well tested combo for shoulder strap adjustments is a 5/8″ ladder lock with 1/2″ wide webbing.  The 1/2″ ladder locks are too small for me to easily handle and they feel much weaker than 5/8″ ones.

I don’t know if this is a factor in your use but I’ve found that a  ladderlock/webbing combo tends to maintain its last setting when off-tension better than a cord/lineloc combo.

combo.

 

 

[Nick Smolinske]

I’ve found the opposite of Daryl on this one – a linelock with 3mm lawson glowire holds it’s position much better than most webbing/ladderlock combos I’ve tried. I think it’s because of the reflective bits on the glowire, they add a lot of texture.

The best ladderlock/webbing combos I’ve found so far come from slightly oversized webbing – lately I’ve been using 1/2″ webbing with a 3/8″ ladderlock. But 3/4″ webbing inside a 5/8″ ladder lock would be easier to obtain.

[David Thomas]

Why use any hardware at all?  You tie your tent guylines with a tautline knot (or some variation for synthetic cordage) and expect it hold all night in blowing winds.

But how often do you adjust your pack straps at all?  Twice a day (after you lose a layer and then in the evening when you add it back)?  If at all. Some packs I don’t adjust the whole trip. Just tie a bowline. Retie it to adjust. Mark three spots with Sharpie for easy reference.

The hardware you don’t use weighs nothing. The hardware you don’t use can’t break.

[Sam C]

I imagine webbing would offer the advantages of being both more stable more comfortable by distributing the load across the width of the webbing in particular in the area where it attaches to the bottom of the pack.

[Patrick W]

The double loop is an interesting idea.  I like it.  As well as the idea of foregoing ladders and simply using knots, as between a tarp and ground stake.

I appreciate the advice and experience of you all.  Thank you!  I may go with the cord and Lineloc 3, knowing that I may have to rejigger later.  I’m determined to keep the weight as low as I can, so some experimentation may be necessary.

[J-L]

If you are going the Lineloc 3 route to save weight, it might be worth checking out the TensionLock Lites from RBTR:

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/plastic-adjusters/products/tensionlock-lite

They’re not much lighter than Lineloc 3s, but they do work with smaller diameter cordage, which would let you save a tiny bit more weight. I’m planning to use them on some non-critical tie-out locations on a tarp, and feel like I get a good hold with Kelty Triptease (which is about 2mm in diameter I think).

[Hoosier T]

I tried the lineloc lites on my hammock tarp hoping they would hold with zingit. They slipped so I had to tie a stopper knot right at the lineloc to prevent slippage. I tested the stopper by leaving it pitched in my yard for a day. The next day I came home from work to find one of the lineloc lites broken and the tarp flapping in the wind. Won’t be using those again…

[J-L]

How did it break? Did you try other line? They seem just as sturdy as Lineloc 3s to me

[Greg Mihalik]

Just to clarify, to make sure we’re all on the same page.

Tensionlock Lite –

 

Nexus LineLoc 3

Is there a link somewhere for “lineloc lites”?

[Mole J]

Those RBTR Tensionlocks look like the same as those Line-lock-lights sold by Dutchware?

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/line-lock-light/

I did a test in February to compare them with lineloc3s.

http://trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/linelocs-again-a-video-comparing-those-from-dutch-with-ll3s-expect-some-slippage-testing.2906/

Includes a very short video of the tests, and a forum discussion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D_sfTuny1kw

Basically, to conclude, the 2mm line (which I used) slips even easier in the Dutch bought mini linelocs than in ITW lineloc3s

3mm line works ok, but the ITW are in all likelihood a stronger, better option.

 

[J-L]

Those RBTR Tensionlocks look like the same as those Line-lock-lights sold by Dutchware?

Yes, I agree, they do look to be the same.

Interesting your line slipped so easily. After watching your video, I went and did a similar test using Kelty Triptease and my TensionLock Lites from RBTR. I pulled as hard as I could and could not get any slippage. Only by releasing tension completely and then yanking could I get the line to move.

[Greg Mihalik]

“… I get a good hold with Kelty Triptease (which is about 2mm in diameter I think).”

Knowing the diameter of the cord is critical to determining success. A quarter of a millimeter will make a difference if the cord diameter is on the edge of the design range. (Kelty Triptease is currently spec’ed at 1.5mm. Older TT was 3mm.)

Also, cords are not made the same.  The reflective stripe on some is very smoothly woven in, but on others not so well. The stiffness of a weave and the surface coating (ZingIt) will make a difference. As will dirt (new versus old).

So, lots of factors to mention with regard to success or failure.

[Mole J]

Thats good @John Harper

Well, it was last winter.  Maybe they’ve improved the moulding since then?

Edit. Also, the one I tested most was the hooked version. Possibly it’s moulding is inferior that the Tension Lock lite version? Though the line lock part looks the same.

Like Hoosier,  one of mine broke on testing too. ( The tent side).

 

 

 

[Patrick W]

The video and discussion are very enlightening. Thanks! I’m definitely leaning back to 1/2″ webbing and ladder for the shoulder straps.

[Daryl and Daryl]

I’m enjoying this thread and learning from it.  Here’s a stab at what I think I’ve learned.

(1) Performance of buckle/web combos appear to be a bit more predictable and consistent than performance of cord/lineloc combos.

(2) A 5/8″ buckle can be used with 1/2″, 5/8″ or 3/4″ webbing.  The 1/2 ” webbing will be the easiest to adjust.  The 3/4″ webbing will be the most resistant to slipping.   The  5/8″ webbing may be Goldilocks favorite.

 

 

 

 

[Samantha R]

What about dispensing with the hardware and using a Whoopie sling for the adjustable part of the pack strap?

[Patrick W]

I’ve thought about dispensing with the hardware as I usually only adjust my pack a couple of times each day.  I think if I were to go that route I’d just use a 2mm guy line for the weight saving.

[Nathan Meyerson]

I’m a big fan of 3/4″ Hardware/ Webbing for shoulder straps. A plethora of hardware options abound from ITW and Duraflex.

Having more surface area to connect/reinforce may be a benefit for larger carry weights.

Though cordage and hardware is likely rated to well in excess of needs, attachment may be a weak point, so recommended method is to box and cross webbing loops to pack and tie cord to these.

Actual weight savings isnt going to be more than a couple of ounces per pack.

Do you plan to carry SUL base weights in this build?

I actually like the aesthetic of webbing for shoulder straps more than cordage, though I am a fan of cordage and LL3 based side compression, using webbing loops that the cordage glides through.

 

[Patrick W]

I’m def not SUL.  Normally around 10 lb base weight.  Actually I am planning to take this pack on the PCT this year and want to make sure it is robust enough for the long water carries.

I ordered my materials today, and ordered enough webbing and hardware to do 1/2 inch or cord on the shoulder strap adjustment.  It’ll be fun to experiment. I’m starting to embrace the power of having my own sewing machine LOL

[R]

You could also use a prusik or similar friction knot that doesn’t require any re-tying, but you’ll probably need something heavier than 2mm for the knot to grip.

[Jordo _99]

Hands down the best use for linelocs on a pack that I’ve found…load lifters.

As load lifted, linelocs can adjust easier than webbing/ladderlocks and the comfort is never a factor either since it’s on the outside of the pack/strap.

I’ve tried using grossgrain and/or linelocs instead of webbing on packs…and it’s brought nothing but problems. I might save a half oz (15g) and the pack is utterly useless because the grosgrain keeps slipping or the 3mm line will catch/rub my arms/hips occasionally…not terribly so but it adds up IMO and causes more discomfort than what cutting 15g can possibly do to comfort.

Therefore, I use webbing and ladder locks all over my packs but if I’ve got load lifters it’s always going to be linelocs.

[Daryl and Daryl]

“am a fan of ……using webbing loops that the cordage glides through.”

Me too.

One never knows what they have in common with another.

[Author]

Posts