Let's talk foot maceration.

[W I S N E R !]

I just had my first ever run in with it yesterday on a training hike.  Not major, but maceration.  One foot is starting to crack slightly under the ball.  They’re still a bit white today even after airing overnight, pretty sore to the touch.

37 miles, 14.5 hours, 25# pack.  I got my feet wet about 2.5 hours in, they stayed wet (more or less) for the remainder of the hike.  Aired them out at one rest stop for maybe 15 minutes tops, washed the sand out of my socks, cleaned out my shoes.  But I was on the move, so there was not much time for a full dry-out.  Changing socks would’ve been pointless in my opinion, too many river crossings.

What’s odd is that I’m not a stranger to high miles with wet feet.  For example, Grand Canyon R2R2R in a day in 2012 I was wet for 40+ miles from snow, nearly start to finish.  No maceration though.  I go canyoneering regularly, at times up to 12 hours with wet feet while hiking.  Never had maceration issues here either.

All I can figure was different yesterday was heat?  I hit a hot, dry hiking stretch with wet feet for about 10 miles and really felt them cooking.  After that is when I noticed the discomfort setting in.  But I’m really not sure why it happened this time as opposed to in the past.  I wore the same socks as in the past (Injinji).  Different shoes, though still in the lightweight breathable trail runner category.

WHat’s going on here?  How would you have dealt with this in this context?  What would you do in preparation?

[David Thomas]

“Grand Canyon R2R2R in a day in 2012”

I was there too, but not nearly the stud-muffin you were.

I note a correlation with heat.  Stomping around with Manfred in the Brooks Range, only for a day, but it was a long, long day with such frequent (cold!) river crossings that my feet never dried out – without any problems.  But in the tropics, I’ve had some burning sensation after a half day of wet feet.

Total shoot-from-the-hip WAG, but maybe a skin moisturizer or even a oil/grease like Vasoline would fill the pores with oil and provide some protection from the softening due to water penetrating the skin?  Easy to test: put a stripe of Vasoline, Chapstick, hand lotion, etc, on different regions of your foot and assess them at the end of the hike to see if you got any protection from them.  It comes to mind because one of Heinlein’s characters recommends it to avoid trenchfoot when traveling back in time to WWI.

As for the cracking, is it in a region with thick skin?  The only place I ever get any cracking is where the soles of my feet have callouses.  But I tend to have softer skin than most people (I baby my feet and am rarely barefoot) and I observe others with thicker skin on their soles have more issues with cracking skin in extreme conditions.  If so, buffing/filing/emery-boarding those thickest spots would leave the skin more flexible and, I suspect, less prone to cracking.

[Roger Caffin]

Sometimes this is caused by your feet still growing in size. That may seem strange, but plenty have experienced the problem. So – try going up a half size in length or maybe to the next width up – or both.

Problem: most jogger mfrs do not specify the shoe width: they make a D fitting (‘average’) and that’s it. But not all walkers have feet that size; many seem to be wider. So if you buy by the brand, your feet get jammed into ‘average’, whether they are that or not.

This does mean that the soreness may not be the same as the cracking. We have had extensive cracking around the edge of the foot after a long trip – eventually a whole layer of dead skin just peeled off. No problem.

Cheers

[W I S N E R !]

I think the heat was a factor, combined with the wet David.  In retrospect, I’d wager a pair of fresh socks for that long, hot, and dry 3+ hour stretch might have mitigated this some, even if I was going to get wet again later.  I’m thinking it might have delayed or prevented some of the damage.

I’m pretty good on shoes Roger, typically wearing wides, or in this case Altra Lone Peak 3.0s, which seem to give me enough width.  You’re right though about foot size change, my feet have certainly widened over the years.  And now the size 13s that felt good in the store are feeling a little short on the trail.  I have worn up to 14s in other shoes for this reason.  But this only created a little toe bump that never materialized into anything nasty on this hike.

I plan on doing this exact hike again soon, hoping to see if I can change the foot issues.

[Kevin Babione]

Craig – You scared me with this one after starting the “Just get your friggin’ shoes wet” thread!  I’m not one to do those kind of miles in one day so I don’t think this will ever be my issue.  Good luck and please keep us posted with what you learn.

[Justin Baker]

If I am hiking in really wet conditions and my feet are constantly getting soaked by cold water, especially if the weather is cool, I never have any issues. If my shoes get wet in warm weather and they dry out, I find that feet really pruned/chaffy and get blistered easier. I would rather be constantly stepping into puddles all day long than crossing streams every couple miles with my feet going through the drying process constantly (typical of high sierra hiking in late june/july).

I have also waded through water all day long on creek trips and my feet were fine.

[BlackHatGuy]

Were you wearing injiji wool or synthetic socks?

[W I S N E R !]

That sounds about right Justin, I’ve also done long trips with perpetual wetness and cooler temps where it wasn’t an issue.  Your experiences tend to mirror mine.

I’ve always worn synthetic Injinji socks Doug.

[BlackHatGuy]

I wonder if wool socks would help alleviate the problem?

[Rex Sanders]

My experiences with wet feet and maceration (or not):

More than 100 whitewater rafting day trips with wet feet all day long in wetsuit booties or wool socks resulted in prune skin and a slimy layer of dead skin cells, but no long term problems. Cold weather or hot weather didn’t matter. Sometimes I repeated the day trips nine days in a row (training new guides), still no foot problems.

More than a dozen four to six day whitewater rafting trips – prune skin, but rarely any foot problems.

Then I rafted the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon with repeated cycles of wet feet, wet sandy feet, and very dry feet over three weeks. Grand Canyon humidity is usually quite low. We also hiked up side canyons every day. My feet and toes were cracked and bleeding by the end. Painful!

Learned to keep my feet very clean and moisturized at night. Just before going to bed, cleaned all the sand off my feet, especially between toes and around toenails. Then applied a generous coating of goop – sunscreen, body lotion, or Vaseline. Cotton socks over that to keep sleeping bag clean. By morning, all the goop had soaked into skin.

No foot problems on three later Grand Canyon trips.

Why no major foot problems on the other trips? I think it was the combination of sand and Grand Canyon dryness.

YMMV.

— Rex

[David Thomas]

‘ I have worn up to 14s in other shoes for this reason.”

Since size-14 shoes are “worn weight” AND eliminate the need for show shoes, that’s a very UL practice there.

[Roger Caffin]

Rex wrote
Why no major foot problems on the other trips? I think it was the combination of sand and Grand Canyon dryness.
Now this IS interesting.
I have heard of people having problems with thin cotton socks: they get very hard for a start. I won’t wear them. On the other hand, I never have problems with thick wool socks.

But with thick wool socks, I never have totally dry feet – as in dry-sand dry. There is always some humidity there, trapped by the thick wool layer (not to mention a slight pong!).

Then Rex wrote
Learned to keep my feet very clean and moisturized at night. Just before going to bed, cleaned all the sand off my feet
In other words, the skin was not allowed to get really dry. So there was no cycling between saturated and bone dry.

I can see the possibility here of getting some serious cracking started when the surface skin gets really dry after being all soggy. A bit like leather getting really dry and cracking. Of course, once you have some cracking of the full skin layer going, then you have problems. (The cracking I had mentioned previously did NOT go to that depth.)

I am going to buy this explanation. I have just learnt something new – thank you Rex.

Cheers

[Nick Gatel]

Sometimes in the desert I get deep cracks in really hot weather and also when rafting on the Colorado… I think part of the rafting is due to high alkalinity of the water. For me, thicker wool socks help for some reason and my shoes are always a bit on the large size. Also good to scrub those areas of really rough skin from calluses with one of those foot callus sponges and then apply a moisturizer.

One thing that has worked for me when I get cracks in my feet is Zep brand Glove, which I originally started using as an auto mechanic.

 

When I was a mechanic my hands were impossible to get clean… always grease in the pores and folds of the skin. Plus after many years the harsh chemicals and solvents started to bother my hands. Then I started using Glove. Not only does it moisturize, it leaves a protective coating on my skin. Instead of the grease “soaking” into my skin, the lotion was a barrier to grease, oil, and solvents. I would apply each morning before starting work, reapply every time I washed my hands and after using any solvents or contact with gasoline, kerosene, or diesel fuel. At the end of the day not only was my skin in great shape, but very little grease soaked into the skin. My hands were actually clean.

[Roger Caffin]

Industrial skin cream at an industrial price, rather than cosmetic cream at a cosmetic price. Good to know.
Thanks.

Cheers

[Link .]

Nick, is it like GHOST GLOVE I have never seen Zep Glove before

[Nick Gatel]

Anna,

Ghost looks to be similar, but much more expensive.

I don’t use Glove on my feet very often, just when my feet get really hard and cracked, but keep in mind I normally don’t wear shoes at all unless I am hiking, attending a funeral or a wedding. On winter snow trips I wear Rocky GoreTex socks, mostly to keep my feet warm.

[Link .]

I have never used ghost glove only seen it in stores, I was just curious if it was the same kind of product so thanks for the answer Nick.

[Mike M]

I think it would be worth giving wool socks a try; it might not be the x factor, but certainly worth experimenting with

I’ve had good luck with both warm and cold wet conditions (combined with big days) and a mid-weight wool sock.  If it’s a multi-day affair I try and get at least one good foot drying session during the day (typically lunch) and then religiously dry and clean my feet at night, leaving them to air as long as I can.  I give them a quick rubdown of Hydropel (long out of business and my stash is dwindling) and don dry socks.  Repeat as necessary.

[W I S N E R !]

I think I’ll do that Mike.  I’ve had some good trips with Darn Tough midweights, should switch back over from the Injinjis.

I’m going to do the exact same hike again in two weeks so it’ll be a good opportunity to fix the foot issues and experiment.

[Ben C]

Haven’t you guys had unusually wet and humid conditions in southern California vs. normally very dry conditions?  I know you’re thinking the dryness is more of a problem, but humidity changes the equation too.  It’s much harder to ever really dry out in humid conditions.  Just a thought.

[Matt V]

Has anyone used the foot balm that Andrew Skurka sells? It’s a bit expensive, but it could be worth it. http://andrewskurka.com/product/bonnies-balms-climbers-salve-2-oz/

[Link .]

I have some Bonnies Balm but I have not used it for that purpose, here is AN OLD THREAD with a few people’s experience with it, not positive. I know a few people that have had good luck with 2Toms Sport Shield though.

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