Kakwa 55 vs. ULA Circuit vs. GG Mariposa vs. Zpacks Arc Haul – best for comfort?

[sbennett3705]

I have just gone from a base weight of 21 lbs to 14.75 lbs through replacement or elimination of unnecessary gear. My current pack is a beast – over 5 lbs. So, it’s time to decide about a more UL pack.

All things being equal, which pack *carries the best*? I’m interested in comfort more than features, materials or durability since all the candidates would seem to work. If I missed a candidate pack, please advise.

[Matthew / BPL]

Pack fit is so subjective. My take is that you might go through a few packs trying to find what works best for you. I’ve purchased packs here on BPL that were new or very close to new for very reasonable prices. When they haven’t worked out for me I have then sold to someone else for most of the cost.

The only pack you mention that I know well is the Circuit. Once again, it’s subjective, but I don’t care for shoulder straps or hip belt. It’s not a comfortable pack for me. I love their materials, durability, and excellent pockets. I have owned and used the Catalyst, Circuit, Ohm, and CDT. I don’t care for the hard edging on the shoulder straps. I prefer the soft edge and thick straps that MLD and Atom use.

Good luck!

[DWR D]

Most, if not all these companies have good return policies. Buy & Try & Return if it doesn’t suite you… Like Matthew said, it’s really a personal thing… body dependent…. and every body is different…

[Arthur]

I wore out my Arc Haul after many years.  Tried the Mariposa.  The straps were much closer at the top and really bothered my normal sized trapezius muscles.  Went back to a new Arc Haul where the top of the straps are wider on the frame and the weight is more on the shoulders. Reinforces what others have said, every body is unique.

[JCH]

Of the 4 packs you mention I only have experience with the Arc Haul.  However for 7 years it has been my go-to pack for loads under 25 lbs.  I find it super comfortable for loads under 22-23 lbs but it can get quickly overwhelmed as the weight increases.  The pack still looks and functions as new so A+ for reliability. I would probably replace it with another Arc Haul.

I echo Matthew’s advice to try as many packs as you can…Gear Swap is your best friend.  I went through quite a few packs over the years searching for the one that worked for me.

[Bob Shuff]

The ULA Circuit fit me and my son for several seasons each. I moved on to a Hanchor Marl when I handed down my Circuit to him and later an HMG NorthRim. The HMG doesn’t fit me now that I’ve lost weight and want the hip belt higher so I’m looking at the Kakwa myself now.   I guess I’ve embraced the try and buy process. I have the NorthRim on gear swap now.  Trying a pack on helps whe. You can find a place to do it, but using it for some trips is the only way I’ve found.  I tried a ULA Gorilla but didn’t like the pad against my back – revealed only after using it on trail. I wish I had tried an ARC pack along the way.

[David D]

I’ve carried the Kakwa55 a few times with ~35 lbs (7 days food, 3-4L water).  Its this need to carry a load of food and water at times that led me to Kakwa over ULA

My shoulder is trashed from a motorcycle accident so I have to carry all the weight on my hips 80% of the time and I find the Kakwa comfortable and stable even at this weight.  It transfers weight really well.

By loosening the shoulder straps, it leaves a gap at my back and pumps air (without swaying because its pinned to me at the hips) so I don’t really miss the lack of trampoline like I have on my 25L Gregory day pack.

Pack fit is personal but when I need to give my hip a break and put load on the shoulders, the s-straps on the Kakwa are comfortable where my knackered shoulder goes numb quickly with some other packs.

Not trying to be a fan boy, but its a great pack

[Alex Wallace]

The Superior Wilderness Designs Long Haul 50L, especially with the removable hip belt, deserves a close look.

[Marcus]

I have many miles on the Mariposa and Kakwa.

 

The mariposa is bigger and comfortable up to about 27-30lbs. The air flow pad makes it comfortable with back sweat and overall I liked it a lot. The frame doesn’t like over 30lbs though.

 

Then I went onto the Kakwa 55 in Ultra200x. Although the padding is minimal, I fond it very comfortable with loads up to 30lbs. The frame can handle 40+ without compressing but carrying more than 27lbs total becomes becomes bummer real fast regardless of the pack.

I really like the Ultra fabric and the Kakwa price can’t be beat.

My only minor complains about the kakwa are its a bit back-sweaty since there is no ventilation and it’s a tad small for winter (lots of Down volume, but not a ton of weight. A Kakwa 65 would be perfect for winter, but I’m a hammocker with 2 quilts and love down pants, booties, puffy, etc)

Overall I highly recommend the Kakwa in Ultra

[Sam E]

As others have said, pack fit is very personal, and there’s no substitute for testing with the load you expect to carry; but after testing a few, you do learn what works for you.  I have upper back issues, so I need a pack that is capable of transferring most of the weight to my hips (efective load lifters); but I also have lower back pain, especially while climbing, so I like (I’ve learned) a pack that tranfers that weight to my lower back.  I’ve tried a lot of packs, mostly lightly used.

The Kakwa did a great job of transferring weight to my hips, but with it’s full length flat back panel, it doesn’t put that weight on my lower back/lumbar area.  The Arc Haul also transferred the load to my hips, but I could start to  feel the stays through the hipbelt at 25 lbs or so (my AH was an older model, I think they’ve improved that interface).

For my load hauler, I settled a few years ago on the Seek Outside Divide/Gila.  For lighter loads, I recently bought (new) a SWD Long Haul with detached hipbelt, and it seems to be checking all the boxes so far.  The workmanship is impeccable.  Unfortunately, they’re hard to find used, and you’re looking at a 4+ month lead time for a new one.

[Dan]

I can’t imagine this is a question that can be usefully answered over the internet. Very few people have logged substantial miles with all three packs you are considering, and pack fit is highly individual. In your place, I would be narrowing down my options based on load capacity and then looking to try weighted packs in person.

[Darryl C]

I have the Kakwa 40 and the ULA.  The 40 carries weight really well but of course isn’t the 55.  That said I love the ULA except for one thing:  I am broad across the shoulders and I bought the J strap option.  After a while the straps rub me in an inconsequential yet maddening way.  Short days I don’t seem to notice but towards the end of long days it drives me crazy.   I am sure the S straps would have been a much nicer choice given the performance of the s straps on the Kakwa. So consider clicking the S strap option if you go ULA.  ULA is available in some retail stores for example Feathered friends in Seattle so try before you buy might be an option.

[sbennett3705]

Thanks to all for your great advice. Seems buying from a reputable company that accepts returns is a great tip. So, my plan is to order one Kakwa 55 and one ULA Circuit and keep the one feels the best. If anyone is interested I’ll report back with impressions.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks for your interest Stephen. These two packs (Kakwa, Circuit) have quite a bit in common, such as dual strap hipbelts, available Ultra fabric, S shoulder straps, load lifters etc. From a load carrying/comfort perspective, the biggest differences may be that the Circuit has the mesh on the backpanel, while the Kakwa has a stronger/stiffer frame.

[sbennett3705]

Thanks Dan. I look forward to seeing your work. I favor the Kakwa if my gear fits, the Circuit may be a bit bigger. Shopping for a “one pack for all” is a challenge, sometimes it’s a weekend pack, sometimes a water-carry hauler, sometimes with a bear can. Can’t wait for the Ultra to come back into inventory!

[sbennett3705]

I’m in possession of a Durston Kakwa 55, ULA Circuit and Zpacks Arc Haul 70. Testing underway. I hope the return policies hold true since I only intend to keep one – I’m in for $1,180 for this test!

[Kevin Babione]

@Stephen B – I’m looking forward to hearing your results, but what impresses me most about your methodology is that you actually waited until you had your gear dialed in before getting a new pack!  It makes so much sense to do that but so few of us actually do.

I’ve got a friend to whom I’ve loaned all of the needed gear for a couple of trips.  He’s got the bug now and wants to start buying his own gear.  At least once a week I get an email with a link to a different pack along with “what about this one?”  I keep trying to redirect him to sleep systems first, telling him that we’ll then look at shelters and that he needs to keep borrowing packs from me UNTIL HE HAS ALL OF HIS OTHER GEAR!  We’ll then look at packs that will hold what he has.  It’s going to be a long winter…

[DWR D]

Returning packs like new helps with the returns. To that end, my first test with new packs is to load them up and use them on my treadmill for a few hours. If the make ‘the cut’ after the tread mill test I take them out on a ruff mountain trail… to keep them still like new, I take a small piece of nylon fabric or anything to lay down on the ground before I take off my pack and set it on the ground during breaks… this keep the bottom of the pack from getting dirty or abraded…

[JG H]

i’m interested in knowing the outcome of the test, too.

as many have said, “comfort” is a personal thing when it comes to gear and especially packs. for reference, i have very unusual dimensions for my size… i’m 5’7″ tall and weigh 200#, with a 44″ chest and 17.5″ neck (an Irish fireplug), and i have a long torso (19.5″) and short legs (27″ inseam). i also have shoulders that slope only slightly, so i find the J-style shoulder straps to be more comfortable than S-style.

i owned a kakwa, but sold it almost immediately for a number of reasons. first, the design of the pack just didn’t work well with my shape and dimensions. beyond that, the vertical stay portions of the frame are too far apart (too wide) and i found that this allowed too many items in the pack to push into my back and it also made the load lifters less effective. the cheesy foam they use is ineffective and it’s borderline shameful. i bought a 1mm hdpe frame sheet and some high density foam, cut them to fit the frame sleeve of the pack, and glued the foam to the sheet. i slid that in with the frame and it not only did it keep the back panel between the stays from rounding out, or allowing items to push into my back, it also added more structural rigidity for a very small weight penalty. i also had to add a Zpacks lumbar pad b/c the kakwa has literally zero padding right where your spine would be helping to carry the weight. the other thing that turned me off is the tapering shape of the main bag. i understand the concept, but it tapers so much that i found my other packs could better load and carry more gear than the kawa.

i also have owned a ula circuit and ohm. i sold those, too, because i decided i’m not a fan of the delrin hoop as a frame and certainly not a fan of how well it does (or, doesn’t) transfer weight directly to the waist. the upside with ula is the many options  you have when buying your pack, such as getting to choose between J-style vs. S-style shoulder straps and also hipbelt sizes. they also have a little wiggle room in the torso length depending on where you secure the hipbelt to the velcro on the pack. if ula would consider making the ohm or circuit with a dual-stay option that runs closer together like the hmg packs, i’d give them serious consideration again.

i have never owned a Zpacks pack and likely never will because of what i’ve read about them and because i am skeptical of the design and its ability to carry any load over 20lbs with genuine comfort. again, that’s a subjective thing, but i know what i’m looking for and their packs just wouldn’t work for me (though i do love my Duplex).

i also owned a mariposa for a minute, but then i tore my labrum and their antiquated standard-pull hipbelt cinching system made it a no-go as i cannot rotate my arm backwards enough to tighten the belt. why any pack maker wouldn’t be using a scherer cinch is beyond me. that said, the pack was ridiculously comfortable with loads at or under 20lbs, but beyond that i wouldn’t know b/c i only used it as a weekender. everyone raved about the comfort of their shoulder straps, but they’ve since changed the materials and dimensions in their new design, which is also a mystery to me. i’ll probably never get to try one, though, b/c GG is still holding fast to that throwback method of cinching their hipbelts. such a bummer.

at the moment, the pack i’m carrying and prefer the most to date is my atom packs mo (now called the prospector). while i’d prefer dual stays, the single stay married to the framesheet really does a much better job than i expected and i carried over 23+ lbs comfortably during our backcountry adventure in Yosemite last week. one of the quirks that i don’t especially like is the way the female end of the sternum strap connects to the shoulder strap. it’s tucked in under the pocket just enough to be annoying and a little difficult to connect with the male side. i would also prefer a single hipbelt adjustment on each side instead of two. i’m sure the dual adjustments allow you to dial the grip in a little more and conform a bit better to your shape, but in practice i found this to be a little overkill. on those two nitpicky points, i wish they’d mimic the kakwa.

one last mention… the hmg southwest (or any dual-stay pack of theirs). i know people poo-poo them b/c they don’t have load lifters, but if you consider the entire design, they’re quite effective at carrying around 20lbs or so. they claim the pack will carry up to 40lbs, but i wouldn’t be using that pack for that weight. i can say that my southwest carried my weekend loads up to 20lbs with great ease and comfort. i only sold it b/c i was hoping to find a single, universal pack for all my trip needs. if i go back to owning two packs, the southwest is on my short list for the weekender slot.

hike on, y’all!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“the cheesy foam they use is ineffective and it’s borderline shameful. i bought a 1mm hdpe frame sheet and some high density foam, cut them to fit.” 
Sorry to hear the pack didn’t work out. In the Kakwa we use a low density (light) foam for the back pad because we are trying to make a light pack. Due to how light it is, it can appear similar to cheaper packing foams etc but it is a quality foam that is carefully selected for that application. We tried heavier foams but didn’t find much of a difference but the weight goes up quickly. If someone prefers thicker or denser foam, it is easy to swap in.  The current foam pad is about 12 g (as I recall) whereas your high density foam plus HDPE frame sheet sounds like a very nice combo but would be several times this weight. So it is a tradeoff but I do think the lighter foam works well if the pack is loaded with some care, but certainly users are free to swap to a different pad.

“i also had to add a Zpacks lumbar pad b/c the kakwa has literally zero padding right where your spine”
The Kakwa does have the foam pad mentioned above, so it’s not zero padding. Using a foam pad is fairly similar to most packs in this weight. A full plastic framesheet is nice, but usually seen in packs around 2.5-3 lbs rather than sub 2 lbs. With just padding you do want to use a bit of thought not to pack pointy objects poking your back.

“it tapers so much that i found my other packs could better load and carry more gear than the kakwa.”
The taper on the Kakwa is more than most other packs about this volume but it is not much smaller at the bottom. For example, a Hyperlite 55L tapers from 33.5″ to 37.5″ while the Kakwa 55 tapers from 33″ to 42″. So it is a tiny bit smaller at the bottom but the main difference is that it is wider at the top. I taper it wider at the top so bear cans will fit horizontally. Most 50-55L packs can’t fit most bear cans horizontally e.g. BV500) whereas the Kakwa can do that. So certainly some will prefer a straighter shape but the bottom isn’t much different than other 50-55L packs.

[George H]

Durston, many good features on your pack! But I messed with a friend’s UltraGrid Kakwa 55 because I was specifically checking for packs with a workable bear canister interface. This one is not it.

As the designer surely you must know the claim ‘inside horizontal carry’ is for marketing only and not even close to a real life feature!

On the pack I tried the BV500 goes in with only a small portion of the canister reaching below the load lifter attachment point, ie it’s positioned almost entirely in the roll top portion to the point where no rolls can be done and the buckles do not reach each other.

One is then left with the vertical insertion in the body, or empty on top (the top strap buckle did seem a little too small for this). This is the way 99% of small packs deal with a canister so nothing unique about the Kakwa

 

[Bill Budney]

Dan, those seem like several examples of a point that you made elsewhere — something to the effect of: [higher load capacity costs weight]. I’m sure that is obvious to pack designers, but it is worthwhile repeating occasionally for pack customers: All UL packs make intentional tradeoffs in carry capacity in order to achieve ultralight weights.

From that POV, a two pound pack that can carry 40 pounds occasionally is doing pretty well, even if tradeoffs are made.

It isn’t a bad thing, it’s just a choice.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks Bill :)

“surely you must know the claim ‘inside horizontal carry’ is for marketing only and not even close to a real life feature!….the buckles do not reach each other….nothing unique about the Kakwa”

Hmm…you are not having the normal experience here. I’m not just here to spread marketing – lots of people are carrying the BV500 inside with the pack properly closed.

Let me try to explain this better: First, I think the ideal way to carry a bear canister is inside the pack, horizontally, near the top. Outside the pack can work but is less secure. Vertically can work but tends to be less comfortable. Lower in the pack can work, but it is more ergonomic to carry the weight high because when the weight is higher you can walk with a more upright posture that puts less weight on muscles/tendons and more on your bone structure. So that is the goal: a horizontally carry near the top of the pack.

Now if we are trying to make a 50-55L pack with a normal height AND wide enough to fit all canisters horizontally you can’t do it because if it so wide it can fit all canisters then it is way bigger than 50-55L. Any pack that does this is at least 65L inside. So the best we can do is taper it wider near the top to fit more of them.

The Kakwa does this. At 42″ at the top it is wider than most other 50-55L packs (typically 36-38″ at the top) but also bear canisters come in wide range of sizes. So more canisters will fit horizontally in the Kakwa than other 50-55L packs, but that doesn’t mean all of them will fit.

With other 50-55L packs, often the only canisters that will fit horizontally are the very short ones that are almost square like a BV425 and Bearikade Scout. With the shape of the Kakwa, the extra few inches do make a difference such that quite a few more canisters will fit like the BV475, Bearikade Weekender, Bear Boxer, Garcia etc but still really big ones like the Bearikade Expedition and Counter Assault Bear Keg are too large.

The BV500 that you mention is the absolute largest canister that will fit. So yes it is a tight squeeze but also we have many reports of people fitting it inside horizontally and being able to close the pack. So I’m not sure why you weren’t able to close your friends pack, but it should be possible to get it in a bit further and close the pack. Maybe you just tried it briefly? As long as you can close the pack, it is ideal to have it up high like this because it has better ergonomics and being above shoulder height means it won’t push into your back like a lower vertical carry can.

[George H]

Have you tried a BV500 horizontally yourself?

The canister came to a stop with the fabric really tight around it. I  hesitated applying more force to a pack not mine.

The frame was seated correctly, but the inside Velcro flap was really hard to close and then with only 1/4” overlap. The horizontal frame part was a good distance above the sleeve, so maybe it is a tad too long?

Pulling the frame out of the bottom slots so it slides down further allowed closing the Velcro properly and get the canister in an inch more. This way I could get one wrap to the roll top and getting the buckles to meet.

I can’t comfortably carry such a top heavy load, but if that wasn’t an issue I would probably cut the frame a little shorter

The pack we fooled around with is a size long

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I originally did not include the BV500 in the list of canisters that will fit because based on the dimensions it looked very close. However, someone in our facebook group reported that it does fit, so then there was a big discussion in that group where several other Kakwa owners confirmed it fits, so I added it to the list of canisters that will fit horizontally. So no I don’t have access to a BV500 to check it myself but it was confirmed by many owners. If it doesn’t actually fit reasonably I will update the list, but so far everyone else has reported good results. Is there a chance your friends pack was the 40L?

Regarding the frame, it sounds like you may have removed the frame from the lower channels, which I caution against because it leaves the tips unprotected and likely to cause damage. We have made the flap that closes the frame larger now, so that is easier to operate.

I don’t think of the Kakwa with a bear canister near the top as particularly top heavy. Of course that is subjective as people will have various preferences, but the pack is not particularly tall. Big load hauling packs and hunting packs often have a much higher center of gravity.

[Author]

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