Insulated Pants Fit and Features

[Charlie Brenneman]

I want to get some pants primarily for camp but also to sleep in if really cold. Realistically I won’t ever get into conditions much lower than the teens, and only for a trip or two each season. I don’t like the idea of changing to get thermals (or alpha) underneath my trekking pants so I’m thinking about EE Torrid Pants or possibly Goosefeet Gear down pants to just throw on over them.

What are your recommendations for any length wider than waist (for layering) or longer than inseam (for drafts at the ankles)? The stock torrid M looks like it would fit my 33″ waist but long for 30″ inseam.

If I’m just slipping over mostly a trail shoe (and not a large boot) are any length side zippers necessary?

Are hand pockets worth it? If so then Ghost Whisperer pants are another option, but pricey and kind of heavy for the amount of down fill.

[Terran Terran]

I’ve had the EE Torrent pants for several years. I wear them on most cold days. Not just hiking. The seams on the liner are out in the rear and low on one leg. Probably from gaining weight and taking them off with shoes on. The shoes fit through with just a little effort. Size 9. I’ve worn them on trail and in the rain. Not as warm as down. Very happy with them though. I’ll probably order a new pair when they have a sale.

[Monte Masterson]

I have the EE Torrid pants and I’m not impressed. When I received them the shockcord that cinches around the waist was too short, so I removed it. Then I wasn’t able to thread a longer piece of shockcord through the narrow passage. Thankfully I have a sewing machine and was able to salvage the pants. If I had it to do over I would have returned them. Having elastic around the waist would be far better IMO. There’s no elastic around the lower ankle cuffs either which means cold can seep in. On the positive side the Torrid pants are well sewn and very durable. Synthetic of course has its advantages such as being easier to wash, quick drying and you don’t have to worry about them getting wet the way you do with down. But the Torrid pants are bulky and take up a lot of pack space. I think Primaloft and some of the other proprietary synthetic insulations are better for apparel than Climashield Apex.

Needless to say, the warmth to weight ratio of down is significantly better. You might consider the Montbell Light Down Pants. They are made with 10D shells and contain 3 oz of 800 fill down. Pricey at $249 but the only expensive gear is the gear you don’t use. https://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=25044&p_id=2301352&gen_cd=1

Alpha Direct pants are available nowadays too and they not only compress well but have other advanced qualities which make AD the choice for many outdoor enthusiasts. A lot cheaper than down and you can buy them with or without shells. https://www.garagegrowngear.com/collections/mens-clothing/products/alpha-direct-pants-by-vado-apparel

https://www.garagegrowngear.com/collections/clothing/products/alpha-pants-by-farpointe-outdoor-gear

[Terran Terran]

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[Terran Terran]

Torrid. I spelled it wrong.

Having a bit of a belly, I find elastic bands tend to roll making it uncomfortable. I prefer the shock cord.
Primaloft is better insulation. If you can find it.
I would add elastic to the cuffs, though I can pull my socks up over them if need be.
I’d prefer pockets for home use. Not for the trail as I usually have pants underneath.

I’m looking at AD for a new pair.

[Thom]

No way alpha direct is as warm as the torrid. My torrid size M 5.7 oz. Fragile, bulky, no pockets , don’t breathe well , but  better in wet weather than down. Sure are nice to slip on in the cold. I bought used ,returned .

thom

[Daryl and Daryl]

I wear the pant version of military surplus jacket liners.  Light, warm, cheap.

I wear a wind pant over  them.

They have articulated knees.

I add an elastic cord at the waist.  Makes it real easy to put on and take off.

[Chris K]

You might consider the surplus M-65 pant liner. (Paul Magnanti reviews them here.) Like most surplus stuff they are bulkier and heavier than the options discussed above, but on the plus side they are easy on/off, durable, warm and inexpensive. I’m similar to your measurement and have the “Medium Long” which layers well over shoes or boots and pants, and tucks into calf-height gaiters. 13.75 oz for that size.

At some point I’ll upgrade to down pants–Montbell, Cumulus, Timmermade, WM–but for now these are hard to beat at <$20.

[Charlie Brenneman]

Terran, How did you size them based on your measurements? Would a longer inseam help solve drafts at the ankles? Good advice on pockets.

Monte, if anything I would consider the AD for sleeping. So light and sounds incredibly comfortable. I have heard about shockcord being an issue for some on the Torrid. I wonder if I were to custom order I could ask for over length on that so I could loosen it better and cut shorter if needed? I forgot about Montbell. Do you think 3oz is a good fill amount for getting down to teens possibly single digits? The chart on goosefeet would suggest like 5-6oz. Ghost Whisperer pants only have like 2.x oz, same with WM lightest pants (2 and 4oz for flash/flight models it looks like). Flight much heavier due to zipper I guess.

Chris, just looked at Cumulus. Specs and price look great, 3.6oz and elastic ankles but 7d scares me! Maybe I’m worrying too much about the fragility of that material. So many seem to use it for jackets and bags, etc.

[Monte Masterson]

They’re probably too heavy for you at 13.6 oz (M) but the Rab Argon Down Pants with 5.6 oz of 800 fill (M) are on sale now at backcountry for $165. Best bang for the buck and very warm. https://www.backcountry.com/rab-argon-down-pant-mens?irgwc=1&ircid=5311&irpid=97233&clickid=XOZ3wZxBexyPT3l2CPyq0U7nUkFQQcyOIzNh1w0&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=Lyst&utm_campaign=Online%20Tracking%20Link&utm_term=Content

The WM Flight Pants weigh almost as much but contain 1.6 oz less fill (even though it is 850) and are at least double the price. The Gore Windstopper on the seat and knees makes the Flight’s shell weight a lot heavier than the WM Flash Pants.

[Terran Terran]

I sized up from a medium waist ( 34”-37”)to a large (38”-41”) so I could wear them over pants. Maybe that’s why I didn’t find the elastic too short. I have around a 35” waist. I could almost size up again. On really cold mornings, I might be wearing thermals and pants underneath. I got my regular length. Any longer, they’d be dragging. I don’t get much draft , but I rarely wear them alone.

[Chris K]

Charlie – I agree 7D on pants is touchy. I have the Cumulus Primelite pullover, possibly in the same fabric. Pretty thin, feels 7D-ish… In pant form I could see sleeping and standing around but sitting on anything beyond a pad on snow would make me nervous. Others may have a higher tolerance.

Love how Daryl and I posted the same thing at the same time!

 

[Charlie Brenneman]

Yeah great deal on the Rab pants just too heavy. I have a sorta light overall kit so trying to keep pants under 8-9oz.

Terran thanks for advice on the sizing. I’ll just go with my regular length at your suggestion. 20-10D torrid is pretty good deal and specs to just under 7oz. Maybe later I’ll graduate to goosefeet down with 4-5oz fill and no zippers, or just pair torrid with alpha direct pants if really cold outside, and then just sleep in them.

[AK Granola]

I have the Montbell down pants, purchased on Gear swap. I love them, so light and warm.  It’s an elastic waist with a snap closure in front.

[JCH]

Another vote for the Montbell light down pants.  Quality throughout.  Also found mine on Gearswap.

[Jerry Adams]

“but 7d scares me”

yeah, same here

my normal pants are supplex – fairly heavy and robust

I have some 7d synthetic insulation pants I wear underneath – 6 ounces

Since the area of a pair of pants is so small, it doesn’t matter that much that down weighs half as much as synthetic.  My 7d pants in down would weigh 4.5 ounces.

I don’t wear insulated pants until it gets below 20 or 25 F.  Which I seldomly experience.  My biggest problem is I overheat and it’s a pain to remove them.  Good idea to have pants you can more easily remove.  It’s much easier to remove a jacket is I overheat.  Or unzip the front.

[Terran Terran]

To give an idea of the insulation value. I walked outside this morning wearing the Torrid pants with thin thermasilk leggings. Reported temperature was 17* with a slight breeze around 9 mph.. Standing in place, my legs felt slightly cold from the breeze. Moving around, I was fine. If you’re using them to mostly sit in camp, midnight runs, down may be a better choice. For me, I think the Torrids are a better choice. I’m pretty rough on them. It’s the old bite the bullet thing. You’ll appreciate it down the road.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

I would never put my pants on (or off) with shoes on, without zippers. Especially ultralight fabric insulated ones, you just catch the sole on the lining.

And, if it’s truly winter, won’t you be wearing somehting more than low cut trail runners? Perhaps a mid height waterproof boot, or ski boots, or trail runners inside overshoes for snowshoeing?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a huge deal to take my shoes off. Even if you can get your shoes through, I’d worry about getting dirt, mud and snow inside my pants.

Also, in camp, I always loosen my laces anyway.

If you insist in being able to take them on and off, with shoes on:
For EE, you can choose your fabrics, so you could choose a super light 7d inner, and use the weight saved to add knee length side zippers yourself.

I have no use for (hand) pockets on insulated pants. If I want to keep my hands warm while sitting, jacket pockets are much more useable. Same for storing small items like gloves, lighter, and headlamp.

 

If you want an insulated pant to put on and take off over footwear, (so full zip) and need to to be short, check out the MEC Compressor. It comes in a 3/4 length (meant for skiers) so you could upsize if needed.

https://www.mountain-equipment.com/collections/mens-insulation/products/compressor-3-4-pant

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

I own 60g/sm PT Alpha Direct pants, and even the 90 is not anywhere near the warmth of a high loft insulated pant.

So, if it is for temps well below freezing, I don’t bring them as my warm pants.

I also have the MB ultralight down pants. They fit reasonably slim. I always wear them underneath a layer (or inside quilt/bag while sleeping), beacuse there are down, sewn through and thin fabric. They are very comfy.

I also just got the MEC Compressors, for true, snow, winter trips, where I’d want to put them on at rest stops, and while setting up/taking down camp. I wouldn’t want down for that, because it would get damp, being on the outside.

[AK Granola]

There’s also an option of just using rain pants for added warmth. Not what you asked, but maybe consider? Easy on/off, and they do add quite a bit of warmth as long as you’re dry underneath.

[Charlie Brenneman]

This is all great info, thanks!

Terran, that’s great info on the temps, thanks. As I was freezing my butt off sitting at my kids soccer game this weekend I was wishing I had some Torrid pants to throw on. Sounds like they could also be of some use in kids sports shoulder season too!

AK, that would be a good option for when I want to go light but I am looking at pants for a comfort item as well, ha. I can’t remember if I brought rain pants on a trip recently where it wasn’t that cold but just cold enough for my trekking pants. I should try that next time.

Tjaard, I think you sold me on zippers!

[Haakon R]

Interesting topic.
I’m looking for something similar myself, but haven’t quite settled on a spec/model.
What I do know is that I’m firmly in the side zip camp. It’s a no brainer to me, but I realize this comes down to how each individual use their insulated pants and how it fits into their overall system.
To me, the ability to adapt quickly, with little effort, is more important than maximizing the insulation, so I could sacrifice some fill to compensate for the added weight of zippers. Blinded by tempting prices and other features that I liked, I bought a pair of insulated pants and a pair of rain pats last year. Both without zippers. The result is that I’ve hardly used them and still opt for my old worn out and badly fitting alternatives. None of them were UL, so the intention was more on day hikes and urban commuting, but I think this lesson carries over to backpacking and more advanced outdoor activities as well.

Pockets are neither here nor there. One is better than none, but it’s hard enough to find the perfect pants, so adding pockets to the list of requirements isn’t worth it. Still it’s my experience that even with side zips, I do more of my temperature regulation with my upper body garments, so having at least one zipped pocket in my pants where important item(s) can be kept longer term is a preference even if not quite a requirement.

My outdoor activities are quite varied so it’s always hard to settle on a spec. I have the same concerns about down as some others that have commented, but I’m still very tempted. Especially with zippers being a requirement, down will help keep weight and packability light/small enough that I’ll choose to bring it with me more often.

[Terran Terran]

I ended up putting a pair of sweats over the Torrid pants .
. There’s just enough insulation to keep the fabric separated. A thin layer. Slightly warmer than a heavy pair of sweats. More windproof and more durable. I appreciate having them, I’d buy them again,  but I don’t want to over sale.

I don’t like having too many pockets. Especially if I’m using them for warm up. I lose track of stuff that way.

[Scott F.]

Take a look at the Patagonia DAS Light Pants https://www.patagonia.com/product/das-light-insulated-belay-pants/85335.html   At 12.4 oz (size L) the decent weather protection, synthetic insulation, and elastic waistband are golden during winter snow trips.  So easy to take on and off over my pants and adds a nice warm layer when stopping or around camp/sleeping.  I find I actually use these since I do not have to take my  boots on and off and get a wet butt.  Expensive, but I was recently told “buy once, cry once” and that certainly rings true with gear shopping.  Wish I heard this years ago.

[Paul S]

I use the Montbell Thermawrap UL pants for spring, summer, and fall backpacking here in the Washington Cascades. I have never had to sleep in them though. For winter backpacking I use the Montbell light down pants-lightweight, and fine sitting around camp, in the snow, down to (so far!) 16 degrees F (with med weight merino wool long under wear underneath.

[Author]

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