I need a warmer sleeping bag system Opinions needed

[Roger Caffin]

And how much space do you occupy on your bed at home? And what width quilt do you have at home.

There is a MYTH that a quilt can just be the same size as the top half of a sleeping bag. Yeah, right. I find a quilt as wide as a narrow sleeping bag to be about right.

Cheers

[Edward John M]

Roger it was a quilt ~1600mm wide. At home we use a Super king doona on a Queen size bed So I know  what you are referring to. Nah Quilts are too fussy for me, especially the need to wear a separate hood or double up the hood of your sleeping shirt to cope with cold ears

Overquilt to handle condensation issues and add a little extra warmth seems to work tho.

[Roger Caffin]

That’s something which sends me up the wall: the lack of hoods on quilts. Stark raving mad! Consider the heat loss from the head – and then of all things they leave it fully exposed. Idiocy to the nth degree.
Our quilts have good hoods on them.

We do sometimes share an overquilt over the top of our separate summer quilts in the snow. Works great.

Cheers

[James Marco]

Yeah, quilts are closer to 3/4 the size of a sleeping bag. Weight wise, it is about the same, considering you need good ground insulation. A hood is almost mandatory in colder weather.
Roger, how do you attach a hood to your quilt? I usually use a hat (balaclava) and a jacket hood.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi James

how do you attach a hood to your quilt?
Well, that’s the whole point of what I was raving on about. MYOG quilts of course, and the hood is part of the design. There was no ‘adding’ involved. Also, you don’t need a drawcord around the edge. But I do put a footbox into my designs: it keeps the foot end of the quilt under control. BPL has an article on MYOG quilts:
https://backpackinglight.com/MYOG_down_quilt_bag/

Now if one has a quilt without a hood, then how to add becomes relevant. I suggest removing any drawcord from the top edge of the quilt: it ceases to be relevant. Then make a hood as a flat pattern and just sew it on. This does mean that there may be a sewn-thru strip (ie no baffle), but all sorts of MYOG fudges are possible.

What I would not suggest is trying to add a commercial hood to a quilt: I suspect the shapes/edges would be all wrong.

Cheers
PS: sub-zero for this morning’s run …

[Edward John M]

I loaned my synthetic overquilt to a mate doing a general mountaineering course on Denali over the last month. It worked for him very well indeed and the massively oversized foot box worked as I has intended, somewhere dry [ or dryer that the surroundings] and warmer where his boots and other sundry gear could be stashed to stop them from freezing solid in the freezing overnite conditions.

Denali was so soggy [ 5C to -8C sort of typical of an Australian snow season]  that he stopped using his down bag and used a summer weight synthetic with my overquilt in preference.

My point here being that an overquilt needs to be much larger and minimising the weight by making is as small as possible may be the wrong way to go, and this is why I chose a 600mm wide mat that doesn’t taper and made the footbox extra wide  to suit

[James Marco]

Oops.
Roger, what I was asking is where on the quilt do you attach a hood? Attaching to the front, puts in in your face (unless you catch the two sides.) There is no back.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi James

I put them slap bang in the middle. Either a definite hood shape, or just a big bulge. See below. (From my MYOG quilt article ref’d above.) See photo of my wife using the hood before that. It works very well in our experience.

You may notice a drawcord tunnel in the photo of my wife. The design evolved after a few outings: the drawcord was removed and the zip was removed. Superfluous.

Cheers

[James Marco]

OK. It seems odd that it goes over your face. This is fine for belly and side sleepers, but not very good for back sleepers. (Me, I toss and turn all night and go through a variety of positions.)

[Roger Caffin]

Ah, but you see we use a TWO-man tent, so my wife is in with me. Warmer that way I might add. Anyhow, I am not allowed to sleep on my back: I snore too much! Both out walking and at home.

Now, if you are a dedicated back-sleeper, my hood might not work. Ah well.

Cheers

[Eric Blumensaadt]

MY SLEEP SYSTEMS:

3 SEASON: Western Mountaineering Megalite down bag, factory overstuffed to 20 F. –  REI Flash Insulated mattress (With light down jacket and fleece lined pants I can go to -10 F. no problem.)

WINTER: LL Bean -20 F. down bag, Thermarest Trail Pro mattress (and Thermarest Ridgerest CCF pad if needed for below -20 F.)

These are simple systems that have worked well for me.

[Edward John M]

Eric it sounds as if you still sleep relatively warmly.

I have always been a cool/cold sleeper and as I have got past 60YO even colder.

This lowering of my sleeping MET is not unexpected and why I jumped at the new winter bag when I was offered it a cost I could afford.

Sleeping 2-Up it may be advantageous to take along a larger sized UL double quilt, that solution has been used by a few Alpine climbers over the last few years with good results when using UL summer bags as the main insulation; per Rogers experience and also Andy Kirkpatricks; but I prefer to use personal system and not a shared one as I am a restless sleeper

[Edward John M]

I was wrong about the sizing on the Berghaus bag too. It was a supposition based on conversation with the seller, it is huge internally. The seller must have measured incorrectly as I could use almost any large 3-season bag inside this or a  LW Everest/Antarctic down suit

[Edward John M]

The bag is huge internally but partly because it is underfilled, 150mm baffle height and 150mm spacing using slant baffles. I’ve just put it into a repair shop to have it boosted with an additional 300 grams of down. I’m of the opinion that the bag is underfilled by 10% at the factory so adding 300grams should give me the equal of a 10% overfill. Reading here and there it seems a lot of people consider a 10% overfill the sweet spot where warmth Vs weight is concerned, even if adding more would make it warmer

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Ed, Sorry, I meant to write 0 F. to -5 F. max, not -10 F. (I’ve taken it to -5 F. and was fine.)

 

 

[Edward John M]

I can never find that page with the overstuffing data on it when I need it.  I hope that overstuffing by 10% is enough I consider the first 100 grams simply making up for the factory underfilling

[Edward John M]

Update

300 grams has made a big difference to the feel of the bag and its free loft. Unfortunately it never gets really cold here even in the depths of an alpine winter so I can’t test until 2020 and my trip.

The extra down however means there is no room now to wear much clothing inside it

I do think it will work tho as 1200-1500 grams of down seem to be what most of these Expedition bags are filled with

[Edward John M]

Having agonised over choices. Done lots of research and spent some really big money on gear the trip won’t be going ahead. I simply will not have enough money. Over the last year I have not been able to save a cent, in fact I’ve gone slightly backwards. So in the very near future I will be selling that big sleeping bag, I guess it will be a hard thing to sell as very few people need a -55C sleeping bag. An Alaskan bush pilot perhaps for the ditch kit

Anyway Thanx for all the help and advice

[James Marco]

Yeah, life happens…

[Roger Caffin]

Sympathy

Cheers

[Edward John M]

Real life issues seem to have a way of interfering with our dreams

If you know of anybody size large to Extra Large seriously looking for some deep winter gear please send them my way

[Author]

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