Hot tenting heat during the night – ideas?

[Bill Budney]

We know that CO is a killer, but isn’t CO2 just as lethal when the levels are too high? They use it for euthanizing lab animals. They just go to sleep then stop breathing. So I’m not sure that clean burning is necessarily much safer than a dirty, CO-producing, burn. Also, you can get pocket-size CO meters, but I don’t know where to get a CO2 meter.

A hot tent’s chimney could be the most important part of safely burning anything while you sleep.

[Juho V]

Very cool pellet stove!

Yeah David seems like Mr. Buddy have number of great safety features which what I have seen all the small portablr catalytic heaters lack. Problem with Mr. Buddy is they consume a lot of gas. Not very convenient with small camping canisters. Little buddy you cannot put on low so it’s out in 5 hours.

[Terran Terran]

Walmart has a Mr.Buddy clone online for $50.

[DWR D]

Just a crazy thought from someone who know little to nothing about this subject… wondering about a Propex heater (made for camper vans) that has an intake and exhaust tube to the out side… fueled by propane. These heaters are small and not too heavy…

[Juho V]

Thank for the Propex heater tip. Seems like an interesting heater. Seems it needs also a battery and draws about 1,8A per hour if I got it right. Not cheap though!

[DWR D]

There are several other camper heaters besides Propex… some burn gasoline, and I would not be surprised if some also burn diesel… maybe do a google search or amazon search for ‘camper heaters’… The reason I know about the Propex is I have one in my VW camper… the company Van Cafe sells them and I think they can tell you the amps drawn while in operation and when in standby… stretching my memory, but I think the standby is only about .05 amps… and I think they make two different sizes/BTU outputs…

[Terran Terran]

When I’ve used a propane heater. I warm myself up as well as my sleeping gear. Then I turn it off. If I woke up with a chill, it was close by and warmed up quickly. They have oxygen sensors and tip over protection and I’ve seen them tested,  but the heater itself is known to fail.

The Protex is a heat exchanger like the diesel heaters. Fewer amps, easier maintenance, and you’re not dealing with diesel. There’s few downsides other than they run over $1,000 more than the Chinese diesel ones. Probably really nice in a van. I’d be concerned with a heater using gasoline.

 

[Bill Budney]

If the goal is to warm a regular tent without the weight and cost of a real hot tent, but you also want to not die, then how about using a propane/butane heater in the vestibule in the style of a Mors Kochanski Super Shelter?

A super shelter uses a transparent film “lens” to separate your living area from a fire, while being transparent to the infrared heat from the fire. The back of the shelter is typically a reflective space blanket. Ends are open (or partially open) for ventilation.

The relevant part is the lens that separates the sleeping area from the potentially poisonous fire. The camper breathes (mostly) clean, ventilated, air, while the fire burns safely outside.

So what if we were to clip a transparent “lens” to the door of the tent, and place a butane-or-propane heater (or maybe even a candle) outside, in the vestibule? The heater is outside, while the camper is inside, breathing air from other vents.

The “lens” could be a sheet of polycryo or an emergency poncho. The clips could be tiny sewing clips, which clip tightly while weighing approximately nothing.

If this idea works out, then perhaps we might convince enterprising tent-makers to sew transparent doors into their tents.

[DWR D]

Yea… I would not go for a gasoline heater… My view is that since you are sleeping in a small combustible space… and since you want to wake up in the morning… error on the side of safety…. tip over and O2 shut-offs can fail… or even come from the factory not working… Mr. Heater and Catalytic heater still say to have outside air coming in to vent because they are still emitting toxic fumes while you sleep (you may not die from the fumes but how many brain cells are you losing?) … Pick the most fail proof heater… for my van I came to the conclusion (after trying catalytic and Mr. Heater propane heaters) that was the Propex… and the 1,000 was worth the safety and no toxic fumes or condensation or venting required… Sometimes these things go on holiday sales like many other things…

[Juho V]

Cool discussion thanks! Actually I have tried the Mors Kochanski supershelter! It really works. If I remember right it was about zero degrees Celsius outside and 20 inside! But I had a big open fire in front. I did not however have a proper mylar space blanket but only aluminized tarp of some sort. And a clear plastic tarp in front of the shelter. Behind the fire was a wooden wall to reflect the heat. Believe I have thought of even this option! It really would work and would solve  many of the safety issues exept the one that I’m concerned which is the open fire inside teepee without someone looking after it.

Propex heater would be great similar to the diesel. Too many issues with it: to carry propane, to carry a big battery. But still could be worth investigating if they have options that draw less amperage than diesel heaters and if for some trips I could carry 2kg or 5kg bottle of propane or use camping canisters.

I saw a video of some youtuber using candles inside the wood stove but it had pipes drawing air from the floor going through the stove and outside blowing heated air inside the tent rather than out from the chimney. It had computer fans drawing the air. Also separate pipe from outside to feed the candles air for the burn. Worked well. If only I could use the same stove during the day with the wood. Cool idea.

Using woodstove with wood over the night concerns me but having a few candles inside it would not that much. Or even some other controlled flame. Water vapor and carbon monoxide would go out. Little heat would be produced. Maybe enough for the stove fan to turn which heat could be tried to be funneled inside the insulated tent. Complicated!

[Terran Terran]

Blanket

[Juho V]

This could do it! I had a look at some other brands but they connected directly to a ”car battery” and drew a lot more.

[Terran Terran]

At least your wife would be warm. That might be enough. I found another one a little cheaper with reviews.

https://zonlihome.com/collections/battery-heated-blanket-comparison

[Nick Gatel]

I have been using catalytic (Olympian Wave series) heaters in my campers since the ’90s. These heaters are designed for indoor use with the caveat they must be vented because catalytic heaters deplete O2, which increases the percentage of CO in the air, as several folks have already mentioned. These heaters require at least 24 square inches of open air venting. No batteries.

Some catalytic heaters come with an oxygen depletion sensor that shuts off the heater when O2 gets low. Problem is they often shut off the heater at higher altitudes due the smaller content of O2 in the air — not the depletion caused by the heater — so they just don’t work at altitude.

Propane is heavy with the required thick tank (or canisters). You can buy a 11 lb. (2.5 gallon) propane tank that weighs 14 lb. empty and 25 lb. full. One problem is most propane sellers charge a minimum fill up price equal to 5 lb. of propane. Batteries are heavy too. I have a 100AH LiFePo4 lithium battery for my telescope kits. It weighs almost 25 lb.

Catalytic heaters create radiant heat, which doesn’t work well in a tent. Back in 2003 I did some experimenting with my small tent trailer (can’t find the data). I cut out panels of reflectix insulation to cover the tent material and this made a huge, significant improvement in room temperature. I also did some experimenting with some non-insulated reflective material, which did make some improvement, but not nearly as much as the reflectix.

I’ve never had condensation problems, but usually camp in deserts when using these heaters. We have camped when it rained for several day without condensation. I suspect the open air space requirement helps mitigate condensation.

Here’s a long-term review of the Olympian Wave 8 heater from my website. There is also a link to the Owner’s Manual in my review.

I would not consider a catalytic heater for backpacking or any kind of heater that required fossil fuel or a battery. Insulation (worn or sleeping bag) would be my solution. I have never used a wood stove designed for tents, but if I did, I would want a firebox large enough to minimize the amount of time spent feeding wood into it. Unfortunately such a large stove might not be practical weight-wise for backpacking.

[DWR D]

I have, and have used my Olympian Catalytic heater in my camper van… the window open requirement makes a significant reduction of just how much and how fast I can move the temperature up. I also find that it give off a subtle but unwanted odor… and, I still don’t like an open flame inside my van… that O2 shut off can malfunction… even at lower elevations… and if that catalytic material get too much dust or other impurities in it, it can ‘burn’ less efficiently and start giving off unburned toxics… It’s just MUCH safer to not have an open flame in an enclosed space… that’s why I eventually went with the Propex….. no odors, don’t need to keep window open… heats faster and safer…

[Nick Gatel]

DWR D,

You did identify potential issues with the Olympian. These are easily mitigated except for the 24 sq inches of free air space — however our trailer is large and the venting isn’t very noticeable. For us, we are often in a similar situation with the OP needing to balance all the parameters. We do have a forced air heater (like your Propex) only larger since our trailer is well over 200 sq ft inside.

It is not uncommon for use to camp for 2-4 weeks in one spot in winter, which can cause two issues with the forced air heater for us:

• It uses electricity to run the fan. Not a big deal for us since we now have a 300AH lithium battery and 880W of solar panels, but it is a big deal for others with the normal trailer set up.
• It uses a lot of propane compared to a catalytic heater and we are often 60 – 100 miles from the nearest town, so refilling our two 30 lb. tanks isn’t an option.

Which gets us back to the OP. How to come up with a suitable cold weather heating system where everything has to be packed in. I would never consider any kind of fossil fuel heater, and worse would be something that requires electricity to run a fan.

I have no experience with tent stoves, but over the years I have read up on many out of curiosity. Seek Outside sells a larger titanium stove that weighs under 5 lb. According to their website it can run all night with 3 or 4 “re-stokes.” Of course it would be a bad idea to let it run while sleeping. The other thing to consider is the time and work to gather enough suitable wood for each night. Plus, it costs over $700 US. This would be the route I would go if I needed auxiliary heat in a winter tent.

[DWR D]

Nick… I have a much smaller camper, I don’t go in extreme cold, and I drive frequently so the battery is not an issue… as well, mostly I just use the Propex to take the chill off in the morning and I installed a 2nd propane tank (thought it has not yet been necessary)… as well, I am chemically sensitive… I have a nose like a bloodhound…. which is a PITA due to the reactions I can get to smells… but it may also be a health benefit as I really can’t tolerate pollutants… and my nose tells me that the catalytic heaters are not as clean as we would like to believe… or as the marketing wants us to believe… as well, anything could possibly fail… like, the O2 or CO2 shut-offs or even the tip over shut-offs…. so… as I indicated above, I prefer the healthiest and most fool-proof source of heat when I am closed up in a small space especially… YMMV

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