Has Seek Outside been taken over by an Investment firm?

[Murali C]

The prices of backpacks are ridiculous and they are still selling Ultra and not Ultra X – which seems crazy and bizarre.

Their fanny packs are $139 – what the heck is that? Totally out of touch with reality!

I see lots of new videos – don’t see Kevin anymore….

 

[Chris L]

I would be surprised if that were the case but you never know. I did notice the prices of their packs increased significantly. IMO those are still fair prices for USA made packs. Easy to say when I’m not in the market! Their 2.0 line of packs are offered in Ultragrid and Ultra200X. I’ve been wondering if their older Ultra400 packs are actually using the “X” version and they just didn’t update the product descriptions?

[bradmacmt]

USA Made – these are relative complex packs. If they don’t make a profit, they won’t be in business in the future. I like seeing quality Co’s like Seek Outside stay in business rather than race to the bottom to compete with Vietnamese stuff.  I don’t think their pricing is out of line at all. Bought my wife a Unaweep 4800 last year – of all her packs she’s owned, it’s her favorite . Hard to argue with that.

Also, if you haven’t noticed, packs are 20% off right now..

[Jerry Adams]

It’s weird how cheap imported stuff is.  There are $5 fanny packs on amazon.  But only “wealthy” people can afford the $139 seek outside fanny pack

[Joey G]

Chris L. , why do you think they are using ultra 200x? I was really interested in the divide 2.0 but looks like just regular 200 to me. Unless I’m missing something.

[Chris L]

Hmm…hopefully I didn’t misspeak. I was fairly certain I had read or heard that somewhere, but now I see that in the product description they say Ultra 200. Since they haven’t had Ultra 200 packs until recently, one might assume they’re using the newer Ultra version. But clearly this needs some confirmation. It would be very disappointing to find out their 2.0 packs are using v1.0 Ultra.

[Joey G]

I might message them and report back

[baja bob]

Nashville Packs sells a potato sack with straps that costs $411.00 made from Ultra. Zpacks charges $399.00. The Seek Outside packs are a bit more complex to make. Unfortunately, there are wage laws in this country that make it difficult for cottage makers to manufacture cheap packs here and compete with offshore factories. I believe the average minimum wage in Vietnam is around $175 per MONTH. Talk to your congressperson about abolishing the minimum wage and you to can have a $250 ultra pack made in the US. It’s never been more possible for this to happen than now.

[Paul S]

True, the Seek Outside packs are quite expensive. But, so far, overall, it is the best pack I have ever had. Better than Dana Designs, better than Osprey, better than Granite Gear.

[Murali C]

Ok – lets get real with some facts.

Let’s compare Zpacks and Seekoutside – two companies which make products here in the US. I am not comparing capabilities of the packs. Let’s just look at price increase over the years.

Zpacks Arc Blast made out of DCF was $325 in 2016. Today with Ultra X it is 399. 23% increase.

Seekoutside Divide was $350 in 2016. Today it is $560 with questionable Ultra – 60% increase.

So you cannot say, just because it is made in USA, it is okay for these ridiculous prices.

In fact I would argue that SeekOutside has not done any changes to its packs other than fabric and enlarging front mesh for Divide. So no R&D. Design has been same – frame, frame extensions, torso change, how hip belt hooks to frame etc have all been same. In the same time, ZPacks has gone through several iterations of its frame components and designs. So more R&D for less price increase for ZPacks.

Nashville packs are overpriced. I have said this many times in this forum.

A fanny pack costs $139????? In which world are they living in? You can buy a backpack at Yargear for $180 bucks – made in the good old USA!

Take fanny packs made out of waterproof material from Northern Ultralight is $50 bucks…from a Canadian company.

SWD backpacks which are comparable to Seek Outside is $399. Sure Seekoutside lets you carry 100 lbs – who wants to carry that for backpacking????

HMG which used to make products in Maine also didn’t see such increases over the years…and you can get 10% to 20% off coupons almost throughout the year.

Of course, SeekOutside can do whatever they want and customers willing to buy it can do so..but, I am just sad to see another company committing suicide!

[bradmacmt]

Z packs are relatively simple compared to SO packs. And I can assure you, the cost of living in Colorado is a lot higher than Florida (ZPacks) or Maine (Hyperlite). SO is not “another company committing suicide.” They’re a Co. pricing their products according to what it takes to pay their workers, make a profit, and survive in the USA, rather than participate in a race to the bottom you seem to be advocating.

 

[Jerry Adams]

“Talk to your congressperson about abolishing the minimum wage and you to can have a $250 ultra pack made in the US. It’s never been more possible for this to happen than now.”

If you pay people less, then they have less money to spend which hurts the economy.  And they’ll pay less taxes so increase deficit.  And less taxes for social security.

And then voters will become desperate and vote for anyone that claims to have a solution.

[baja bob]

Have you looked at costs for similar hunting packs from a company like Stone Glacier?  Hunting companies’ products seem to be on the higher end of pricing.  You may not want a seek outside pack for backpacking to carry 100lbs, but the guy that just bagged an elk does.

Minimum wage in CO is 20% higher than FL. Maybe Seek Outside pays its employees better rather than shooting for high profits   Who knows.

 

[Murali C]

I would argue that SO packs are simpler…Kelty packs are also simple – H frame – no magic to it. Sure their extensions are innovative – easy to add height – but, that has not changed in years. Try designing a backpack with bendable frame, some torso adjustments and lightweight – you cannot tell me Zpacks backpack is simpler to design than an external frame pack. You can buy a Kelty external frame pack for $200 (new) or $50 bucks from eBay.

And Zpacks Arc Blast was $325 when SO Divide was $350. So, cost of living was comparable in 2016 and now has gone out of whack in 2024 between the two states???? C’mon!

I am not saying SO should participate in a race to the bottom. I think they don’t know their clientele anymore. Kevin used to keep backpacking pack prices low because he knew he was competing against backpacking packs. Hunting backpacks used to be more expensive compared to their Divide/Gila. Now, it is no longer comparable – however which way one spins it.  That is why I was asking if SO has been taken over by a investment firm. By now, Kevin would have chimed in if he was still in charge of SO!

And by the way – there is nothing wrong in making products outside USA. And I am not advocating SO go outside the USA.

I come from semiconductor background. Companies like Apple, Qualcomm, AMD, NVIDIA etc would not have been possible without chip fabrication plant like TSMC in Taiwan. It costs 3 to 4 billion dollars or more to build a chip fabrication plant. Many innovative companies and products have come into existence because of globalization.

Take Durston or Tarptent -they had ideas and they could pull it off by having stuff manufactured elsewhere. Not everyone has the capital or the desire to have in-house manufacturing.

I personally don’t care where products are made. I buy the best products that suits my need wherever it is.

[baja bob]

The waist pack you reference that is $50 is 1.8L. The seek outside is 7L with hydration pocket that includes a 1.5L bladder, a main pocket and two extra pockets.  It has a lumbar pack type waist belt.  The two really are not comparable.

Mountainsmith makes something similar that is $89.  Patagonia has a 9L for $239 and an 11L for $169.

Drawing the conclusion based on a waist pack means they were taken over by private equity is a bit hyperbolic.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Hi Folks …yes I haven’t come around here a lot lately , a lot of it has been checking out from online, some of it has been letting the younger ones do some videos etc, and well frankly, I sort of got a little reprimanded for not stating a vendor affiliation one time.

Comparing our backpacking packs .. look at our Flight 3 . It’s around a 400 dollar pack , and carries excellent (we did a few changes on the hip belt and no longer offer the one that has an adjustable size ) It carries well over 50lbs, in fact I’ve put 80 in it and tried to see if I could get the frame to loose shape .. but nope .. gotta love 7000 series for that. There is some R & D that went into the new Flight 3  and the new Divide  but it isn’t as obvious. there are some subtle changes in the hipbelt and bottle pockets plus the price you see includes more like the Lid. More things that used to Ala carte are just bundled as part of the pack. Also there are a couple other things, like the bottom is now doubled up (even on the flight) .. we decided to make “really good packs that are light” more than to make really light packs that are good. I Hope that makes sense.

 

As for the fanny, Mesa hip pack .. Made in USA, Ultra Grid , Ultra Stretch , WP zips, Hydro , an actual partial hip belt , with PALS so it can mount accessories on it. And yes, we pay rates that I am sure is higher than Florida. Most people at Seek make more than new teachers .. our main pack guy has a degree in teaching .. and he assembles and does pack stuff. We have considered moving some stuff maybe to Central America or similar. We have also been R&D ing another pack line, that is functionally equivalent to our big packs , but super simple to use and adjust.

At one level, sometimes changes are NOT obvious on the R & D work. Example would be the new line, I just got a new sample that looks exactly like the old sample, but it isn’t . It’s a tighter fit, there is less play and it saved a couple ounces. Those changes were almost all “Construction technique and the order of operation” .. but they are not obvious to anyone looking at the packs. It’s even subtle wearing , but the one is a tighter and lighter fit with better lift and load stability.

I hope I didn’t over step any vendor stuff here, I own and founded Seek Outside to be clear . Anyway carry on.

Kevin

[Jerry Adams]

thanks for running a company, employing people, providing useful products,…

it’s too bad there isn’t a better way to make that work and still pay people in the U.S. good wages

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Me too Jerry but maybe our expectations are unreal. How much did a Dana Designs cost in 90’s ? Or how about a Dolores made Osprey Vector … my guess is the prices are not that far off from our prices today and the quality of materials is vastly improved. By the way it is UltraX we just need to get the site updated.

[bradmacmt]

Me too Jerry but maybe our expectations are unreal. How much did a Dana Designs cost in 90’s ? Or how about a Dolores made Osprey Vector … my guess is the prices are not that far off from our prices today and the quality of materials is vastly improved. By the way it is UltraX we just need to get the site updated.

Kevin, I was going to bring up Dana and Osprey too, both of which I owned. When I started backpacking in the 1970’s gear, adjusted for inflation, was generally more expensive than it is today – sometimes far more expensive. We live in the golden era of quality, light backpacking gear. I’m glad yours is one of the bright spots out there still producing quality, USA made gear. AND, you listen to your customers (like bringing back the forward pull hipbelt) :grin:

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