Gore-Tex Trail Shoes or Not?

[Nicholas R]

I am a new member of the Backpacking Light forum.  I posted about wearing crampons with trail running shoes, and received excellent advice from a number of you, which I followed.  I now have another question.  I have the choice between wearing trail shoes with Gore-Tex or without.  The shoe is the same in both cases except for the Gore-Tex.

The place I will be hiking is extremely wet and also known for rainy weather.  There will be many streams and rivers to ford.  So I count on my feet being wet pretty much all the time except when I put on my sleeping socks at night.  I have bought some Gore-Tex lined socks, and wonder what the best solution is.  I am worried that if I wear Gore-Tex trail shoes that the water inside the shoes will just stay there whereas with regular mesh trail shoes the water ought to be more easily pushed out through the mesh by the motion of my feet in the shoe.  On the other hand the Gore-Tex layer might keep my feet a bit warmer, as it will be quite cold at times.

So I wonder which trail shoes to wear, with Gore-Tex or without, and how to couple the one I choose with the Gore-Tex lined socks.  Thanks!

[Matt Dirksen]

When are you going, and what climate?

In favorable weather, I always use shoes that have a high degree of ventilation and potential for draining water out in a good way. I find it much more comfortable and efficient to simply allow my feet to get wet, and have reliable ways of drying my feet out at the end of the day. And then rinse, wash, repeat the next day.

Here’s a great article form Andrew Skurka: https://andrewskurka.com/why-waterproof-shoes-will-not-keep-your-feet-dry/

And another for that “4th season”: https://andrewskurka.com/conditions-hiking-waterproof-footwear-winter-system/

[Ben C]

if I wear Gore-Tex trail shoes that the water inside the shoes will just stay there

That’s why gore-tex never makes it to my shoes. Gore-tex will stay wet for days.

Especially if it’s rainy and you will be crossing streams, your feet are going to get wet. The issue then becomes what will dry out faster.

[Arthur]

I use well vented shoes in wet conditions. Just get wet.  Really cold and wet, gortex or vapor barrier socks.

In the dry desert, I wear Gortex or the like.   It keeps the dust and sand out of my shoes and between my toes.  Sounds odd, but to me, its worth the slight increase in heat.

[David Thomas]

I could make a weak argument for Goretex shoes if all-day, every-day is going to be like this:

5 years ago, I hiked the first day of Manfred&Sons’ Brooks Range trip and crossed that stupid, very cold arctic river 80 times that day.  In addition to the usual conductive heat losses, convection of river water THROUGH my mesh low-cut hikers made it colder than a non-porous shoe would have been.

Still, I wouldn’t recommend Goretex shoes, even for that day.

• there were 20 minutes here and there and an hour at one point where I wasn’t crossing a stream every 5 minutes.  And then my shoes drained of water (because they were mesh) and my feet warmed up a fair bit,
• the better approach is neoprene socks – they would block the convective heat loss and not fill with water like a Goretex shoe would, and
• most days aren’t so continuously submerged,
• and even if you reasonably expect most days to be very wet, isn’t it better to live in hope?

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

In my experience, Gore-Tex shoes never dry. It’s a bad use of Gore-Tex. Might be good for heavy duty all-leather boots, but not for fabric and foam running shoes.

[Ryan Jordan]

My rationale for non-WPB vs. WPB shoes is simple:

1. Stream crossings deep enough to be over the top of the shoes? Don’t wear WPB shoes. Stream crossings with cold ambient temps? Non-WPB shoes + neoprene socks are a good option.

2. Long miles in dry conditions, esp. with warm temps? Don’t wear WPB shoes.

3. Wet snow/rain + cold temps (< 30s) - WPB shoes are my choice, often with Goretex socks for camp, or on very cold days while hiking in snow. And always with a high gaiter. Usually I only consider WBP shoes when I know I'm going to be hiking in cold, snowy conditions.

[Geoff Caplan]

Another walker here who doesn’t like Gore-Tex in shoes. Once the water gets in (and in the conditions you describe, it most certainly will) it will take longer to drain and dry. Probably works OK for walking the dog, but not for multi-day hiking in wet terrain.

Being a Brit, I do a lot of walking in the wet and cold. My solution involves using thin Coolmax liner socks. You can wear them singly or layer them as conditions and preference dictate. Because they’re so light, you can take a few pairs and change them regularly during the day. They dry much faster than any medium weight sock, so you’ve got more chance of having something dry against your skin for at least some of the time. And I have found them surprisingly durable.

In general I don’t get cold with this this setup – I was out this winter in deep snow and -15C windchill with no issues. The only time it’s uncomfortable is if I’m constantly stepping into freezing water in boggy conditions. That’s when I use a vapour barrier, which is a fancy name for a couple of plastic bags. I put the bag between two layers of liner socks, so the bag isn’t uncomfortable. This doesn’t keep you dry, but it does trap in some warmth.

Other people recommend neoprene socks, but I haven’t tried them yet. My experience with waterproof socks wasn’t encouraging – they leaked within minutes and weren’t very comfortable, though they did help keep in the heat. But the liner sock + plastic bag solution has worked better for me and my wallet.

My other tip is to rub some nappy/diaper cream onto your feet at the start of the day. It’s formulated to protect skin from the wet, and I find it works quite well. My pharmacist was initially amused when I suggested it, but agreed that it made sense.

With well-draining trail shoes I’ve never had so much as a hot spot with this setup, and I still have all my toes, despite being out in the cold and ice.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

RECOMMENDATIONS:

GTX “mid” boots (not shoes) like Merrill Moab Mid, for rainy weather.

Also for snowy weather with temperatures above 15 F. WITH GTX knee high gaiters and  3 mm neoprene divers socks (over thin poly liner socks) as a VBL (Vapor Barrier Liner) and for more warmth than heavy wool socks that will get wet with sweat.

Dave Thomas would have been well served had he worn these neoprene divers socks under his mesh shoes just for their insulation in his arctic river crossings.

[Ralph Burgess]

I hiked Paria Canyon mid-winter, probably similar conditions to David’s trip pictured above, over several days – constantly wading in and out of a very cold river, albeit a calmer river.   I used non-Goretex trail runners that drain easily, with Seirus Neosock for insulation, and a thin liner sock underneath.  ( I also wore NRS Hydroskin 0.5 wetsuit bottoms because it was really cold, but I think I would have overheated in slightly warmer temps. )   It all worked well.   I put the wet Neosocks & liners in a plastic bag inside my sleeping bag to stop them freezing overnight.  It was still pretty unpleasant putting them on in the morning, but as soon as I got moving it was fine.

I recall you said you use Ultra Raptors.   They are my usual shoes too, but they are not the best at draining, because they have a continuous protective band around the side.  For this really wet trip I used La Sportive Helios.   But if you like Ultra Raptors and the fit with your crampons etc., it’s not that big a deal, they still do drain.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Dave Thomas would have been well served had he worn hip waders.

[Jerry Adams]

“The place I will be hiking is extremely wet and also known for rainy weather.  There will be many streams and rivers to ford. ”

Then Gore Tex not so good, takes longer to dry

I prefer mid height Gore Tex because I normally only ford shallow streams.  Then my feet stay drier than breathable shoes.  And walking through wet brush/grass.  With breathable shoes my feet will get wet.  I also wear gaiters.

[Anonymous]

I’ve haven’t used my gore-tex socks to cross streams where my feet have been submerged, so can’t recommend them for that. I most often hike on the AT (from mid fall through to early spring), and usually only encounter small streams with rocks in them that it’s easy enough to cross without submerging. Also, if the water is higher than the top of the sock, won’t one’s feet still get wet?  Then won’t it take longer for the socks directly on the skin to dry?

Somebody should design something better than WPB or neoprene. These will work, but are far from ideal or comfortable. Would need to be something very quick drying and very non absorptive, while insulating.  (Thinking out loud: Kapok in between two tightly woven, but still highly breathable polypropylene layers or loosely woven polyester coated with silicone?  Or what about highly perforated CCF foam?).

Meanwhile, would emphasize the sock combination I mentioned on the other thread, minus the Gtx part. Thin merino or alpaca-high synthetic blend “baselayer” sock, polypropylene liner sock over that, and then thicker polypropylene sock over that, combined with breathable, quick drying, well draining mesh trail shoes.  Wring out the PP socks as needed. Once wrung out, they dry pretty fast, and maintain some insulation while damp because the material itself is fairly non conductive thermally. Would still bring the Gtx socks, but not for actual crossings, but in case your feet start to get too cold while shoes etc are drying out. They don’t weigh much.

[Matt Dirksen]

One of my uncles is in his mid-seventies and still backpacks to this day. In my recollection, he was an early adopter of a good pair of comfortable but durable sandals and a pair of medium/heavy wool socks.

I understand he’s pretty much applied that method soon after he returned home from his second tour of Vietnam.

I think he had developed a lot of experience from his years of “what not to do” while he was overseas.

[Anonymous]

Matt, yeah, I think that is a good solution for a lot of conditions, but the OP wants to use crampons with his foot wear. Not sure how well that would work?

[bradmacmt]

This is an excellent discussion with lots of great input.

Only thing I’d add is another negative of Goretex is the shoe construction. Typically, because of the built-in bootie, the heel cup on Goretex lined shoes is very HARD (un-cushioned). For me, I’ve always had unreasonably soft heels, and especially my slightly smaller right foot will develop blisters in Goretex shoes.

How I’ve overcome this with the few Gore lined boots/shoes I do have is to epoxy in a “heel cushion” (designed for womens dress shoes). They have a “sticky back” but it won’t last and they need to be glued on. I’ve found minute epoxy or superglue gel to work best.

 

[Terry Sparks]

I use GTX high top trail runners with gaiters and GTX socks for hikes on consolidated Sierra snow and have had good results with keeping my feet warm.  These are hikes where I don’t and won’t hike through water and the purpose of the GTX is to use a lighter shoe and sock that act somewhat like a vapor barrier.  The shoe is stiff enough to hold a hiking crampon while keeping my feet dry from melting snow on the shoe, without the weight of a boot.  This setup keeps me from having to hike with frozen feet in the mornings on the snow.

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