Frameless Pack Fit – Kumo and Similar

[Erik Norseman]

Hello BPL,

I’m a guide and longtime backpacker and climber. I’m a recreational UL backpacker but always had some kind of frame (even as minimal as rigid frame sheets). I’ve done a lot of frameless trips and have experience packing frameless bags, but usually I take the frame out of a pack and just make it work somehow, or just grin and bear it because I’m climbing and know the load will change once the gear is on my harness. I’m finally spending  the time and money to explore a dedicated frameless pack for backpacking exclusively. My bw can range from 8-10lbs, could go a bit lighter for sure, but for 2-3 day trips I don’t expect the pack to be above 20lbs ever. I could post a lighterpack if folks want.

I have recently purchased a 2023 Superlight Kumo. I like the design overall. I’m wondering about frameless pack fit and torso length – both specific to the Kumo but also to other frameless packs in general. I have the medium size (19.5-21.5”+). My torso length is 19.5”. I use a large HMG SW comfortably and generally find larger packs work well for my body even though I am only 5’7”.

I find that the pack sometimes feels like it is pushing down on my tailbone/upper buttocks vs. Curving with my lumbar. It gives the impression of being a bit long for me. However, when I use the hipbelt, that issue goes away, as it seems to pull the pack into the shape of my back a bit. That said, I’d like to go no hipbelt for some trips and day hikes.

I’m wondering if this is a size issue – would the size small ride noticeably higher and therefore clear my lumbar? Or is this a packing issue? I have found that when the pack is loaded more loosely/carefully or less full, it is less rigid, and seems to curve better and avoid this pressure point a bit. That said, when I’m putting an overnight load with a few days of food, I wonder if it is possible to avoid the pack becoming fairly rigid. As a long time frame user (the only frameless packs I use are for climbing and they sometimes has a frame sheet at least), I am surprised at how rigid and “supportive” a frameless pack becomes when loaded up! This is cool, but also seems to contribute to some pressure points.

The other note is that the pad I use (or omit) in the external pad sleeve makes a difference. The stock sitlight pad is fairly comfortable in this regard, but does create the pressure point on my tailbone. Removing the sitlight reduces the pressure point, but decreases comfort a little bit. I also have a folded gg thinlight. The thinlight is less comfortable in a way, because it is a lot thicker than the sitlight and more square in how it protrudes from the pack. But, because it is multiple layers, with some shifting and squirming it around it can create a comfortable fit sometimes too, but it takes a bit more care/attention. Being thicker it makes the whole pack more rigid, which im not sure that I like! But I really like the functionality of the thinlight, so im tempted to carry it regardless. But I’d love to carry it in the pad sleeve, as that seems like the most elegant solution.

I’m curious if anyone has any tips or can point me to some threads explaining this. In general the Med Kumo feels like it is the correct fit for me. When tightened, the shoulder pockets are in the perfect place and the harness seems appropriate for my torso. The straps wrap nicely over my shoulders and connect feel good. The hipbelt connects correctly around the top of my iliac crest when in the lower of the two hipbelt positions. BUT, I understand that frameless packs fit differently and some (many?) prefer it to ride quite high up. One issue I see with that is that I can only just use the side pockets with the pack on currently – riding it much higher would make it tricky to reach water stored there.

My guess is that it is mostly a packing/experience issue, but I’m interested to hear if I simply have too long of a pack? I can take some pics with it if that will help.

[Matthew / BPL]

I’m 5’6” and the medium Kumo is probably the best fitting pack I’ve ever carried. I like it long, wouldn’t want a shorter torso length. YMMV. I think mine is 2017 or 2018, I don’t know if dimensions have changed. I believe it was the last year they used the glorious seatbelt webbing hipbelt. I wish more companies used this solution.

I like how it feels without a pad in the external sleeve because it just melts into my back. Sometimes I use the pad or a thinlight.

I think a perfect carry is highly dependent on how it is packed. When it’s right it’s just so good. This is my main advice, pack it lots of different ways. My favorite is with my food packed flat in a ZPacks dcf bear bag right in my lumbar. It gives a nice hump that locks the heaviest items right into my anatomy.

20# is a little too much for me in that pack. 17 is great, 18 is doable.

I have an Atom+ and its light hoop frame gets me to 20# much more comfortably. It is made from better materials as well but it costs quite a bit more (double?). You have the Kumo already so make that work. It’s a great pack.

I lowkey want to try the fastpack version.

[Erik Norseman]

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for your response! I appreciate it a lot, as I am not looking forward to the prospect of selling and trying a new pack tbh.

I will experiment with packing! I suspected this was a key factor. When you use a thin light, how do you find it feels? How do you make it comfortable? Do you use the full length thinlight or is it trimmed? Rolled or folded version? I find it a boxy protrusion that is only comfortable with a lot of weight to compress it into shape. With the pack half loaded as a day pack the pad actually reduces comfort, lol.

I’m using the folded version and thinking of trimming 1 panel off as it is much longer than I am tall, and I figure it miiight make it a bit less boxy in the pad sleeve. I also really like the way the pack feels without anything in the pad sleeves, but it seems a shame not to use it, lol! Do you pack a thinlight or similar inside the pack? I might cut a custom pad out of spare foam that gives a little protection from anything poking me but is thin enough to not impact the packs curve along my back or produce any weirdness lol.

[Matthew / BPL]

I have a rolled thinlight and it is trimmed to maybe 40 inches? My recollection is that it folds to ~4 layers thick when I put it in the Kumo. Maybe three layers? I use it folded up as a sit pad during the day and under my NeoAir at night.

I have carried the Thinlight in the side or front pocket as well. I don’t love it against my back.

My Kumo came with a 1cm thick pad that had sort of an egg-crate texture. It is fairly dense, stiffer than a blue Walmart CCF pad.

I have tried my NeoAir against my back and didn’t like that at all.

I definitely like the pack without any pad in the pad pocket.

[Erik Norseman]

Thanks Matthew!

I think I will experiment with trimming my thinlight but also just trying the pack without any pad in the sleeve. As I use the pack more I find its comfort improves and I’m learning about what does and does not work!

[Author]

Posts