Feedback for Blog Post: Beginner-ish UL List

[John Rowan]

I’ve been working on putting together a series of blog posts that are inspired by some of the commentary I’ve been seeing on the PCT Facebook pages over the last few weeks, primarily from people who are in the process of building out their kits in anticipation of upcoming thru-hike attempts, and who’ve expressed an interest in going lighter, but think that it’s way out of their reach financially. Basically, I’ve been seeing a lot of newer hikers assuming that having a light pack means dropping $550 on a Solplex.

My general idea here is to come up with sort of a “middle ground” list- a UL list that’s suitable to less-experienced hikers (maybe not total beginners, but not experts either) that might stand the test of time a bit better than one of the $300/$100 challenge lists (or gearing up at Walmart, etc.), but which is also cheaper than parking a dumptruck full of money at ZPacks HQ. The other point of the blog post is to talk a bit about general ideas for weight reduction which are cheap or free, but which aren’t skill-intensive.

I tried to put things together using the following goals:

• Less than 10lbs baseweight
• Comparably affordable (with the acknowledgement that it costs SOMETHING to gear yourself up, especially if you’re going on a thru-hike)
• Suitable for most 3-season mountain conditions (i.e. a PCT thru)
• Can be counted on to hold up to 5-6 months’ abuse
• Gear that users hopefully won’t want to replace as they gain experience
• User-friendly enough that a beginner-ish hiker could use it without going stupid light.*

* My general interpretation of this last point is something that, at most, requires skills that can be learned and applied easily by reading in a book, seeing it on Youtube, practicing in the backyard, etc. Examples include using a CCF pad to support a frameless pack, use your pack for leg insulation with a torso pad, don’t pitch your shelter on ground that’ll turn into a lake, etc.- these are easy skills to learn. I’m not entirely sure that I’ve nailed this assessment (my shelter choice is exhibit A), but, hey, that’s why I’m doing a bit of peer review here.

Ultimately, my guesstimated cost for this list is about $750-770 buying everything new, which is obviously quite a bit of cash to lay down, but it’s also far less than many of us spend (and far less than the $1,600ish average gear expense that the PCT 2016 survey reported). Considering that I probably spent $400-$450ish on my first kit on crap gear from Amazon (which easily broke 20lbs base weight and which I rushed to replace with lighter gear the next year), I think it’s a decent bargain.

List: https://lighterpack.com/r/72n5f5

Note: This isn’t the list I personally use now, but it’s made up of items that I’ve either owned and used pretty extensively in the past or spent enough time with that I’d at at least feel comfortable recommending as something to do further research on. I’ve owned/used all of the critical stuff at some point.

 

 

[David Thomas]

Low-hanging fruit: instead of a 4-ounce stove, a $13 BRS-3000T at less than an ounce.

An important part of your criteria is “practicing in the backyard”.  As I started to read your post, I was thinking cheap and light = 1) learn to use a (cheap, beater) tarp, 2) use the tarp overnight in your backyard, 3) use the tarp on multiple shake-down trips, 4) only then buy a modest-priced UL tarp.

The biggest cost savings I can offer is instead of the ULA CDT at $145, <50 liters, and 24 ounces; use two packs.  A $15 sil-nylon, 3-ounce daypack worn forward on your chest and a 30 or 35-liter frameless pack on your back.  Maybe a Golite Jam-35 off of eBay.  Or a used REI Flash 30.  That cuts the pack cost in half, with no more weight, more area to strap stuff too and a more balanced carry (albeit warmer).

I haven’t followed the “Costco quilt” threads closely, but that seems the biggest possible cost savings in a sleeping bag/quilt.

Why so many drugs?  I’d have 1/5 as much of each and also pack that quantity in each resupply.  If you get a bad way and really need more, ask other hikers.  Some stuff you can’t borrow: guns, girlfriends, underwear, snickers bars.  Other stuff people are happy to share (because it gives purpose to their carrying it all those miles: InReach / SPOT, first aid stuff, smart phone for pics at the summit.

And while a orange plastic trowel is only $3, a found stick is 2 ounces lighter.

[Link .]

” And while an orange plastic trowel is only $3, a found stick is 2 ounces lighter.”

I disagree and with that, and agree with PAUL MAGNANTI in the thread I linked

and Why ultralight hikers should carry potty trowels by Liz “Snorkel” Thomas

Last but not least Everybody poops: straight poop from Ranger John about number two on the PCT from the PCTA itself

Please, please carry a real digging implement. There are many lightweight trowels on the market, although plastic trowels rarely hold up for a long hike. Sticks, boot heels, hiking poles and rocks just don’t cut it for digging 7-inch-deep holes, day after day in all kinds of ground, much of which is very tough.

 

[John Rowan]

Thanks for the comments, David. I think one thing that I forgot to put in the post last night is that my hypothetical example for the series of blog posts I’m doing is a PCT thru-hike (or any thru-hike, although it wouldn’t be a good AT list), so some of the gear choices are there to cover those sets of conditions (i.e. the EE Apex Enigma, which I picked for the sub-$200 price and ability to keep one warm on a chilly Sierra night), and are also things that I’d personally trust to make that trip based on my own usage (ULA pack). I’ve been very curious about the Costco quilts myself, but am not totally sure I’d trust them for 4-6 months of the way I use things (or in all temperatures.)

Incidentally, that’s also why there’s so many drugs (that one’s just straight-up copied from my list for going out on the PCT again this year). The Advil is probably a bit high but for the fraction of the ounce, I’d rather save myself the stop at a drugstore when I’m in town, and I’m also prone to occasional bouts of really severe sciatica, which burns through that really quickly. The other quantities I’m reasonably comfortable with, especially since I came within a pill of running out of immodium on my 2015 PCT hike after some antibiotics gave me several days of the runs.

Stove: I went with the JOGR because I’ve used it and can at least offer come commentary on its use. Although I break this rule a few times in the post (it’s actually four very long posts) I’m doing, I’m trying to avoid stuff I haven’t at least spent some time with in-person. I actually went back and forth on this one quite a bit with the BRS-3000T, but ultimately decided not to include it based on the reviews that Hikin’ Jim has been posting about failures in the pot supports. I suspect that the JOGR is far from bombproof, but there’s at least less clamor about problems with it.

Now that it’s the morning, and I’ve had my coffee (and my second coffee, getting ready for my third), I think I have a better way of saying what I’m after- my target audience for the series of posts (written, but not yet published) is someone who’s been backpacking before but not a lot (maybe once or twice, which was a pretty common experience level among my peers on the PCT in 2015), and is in the process of putting together a kit with, say, a $120ish ALPS Mountaineering solo tent (4-5 pounds) and an $80-100ish Teton Sports pack (same weight range) in anticipation of a thru-hike. I see a fair number of these people on the PCT Facebook groups, and I’ve seen more of them on-trail. A lot of these people don’t like how much their stuff weighs, but tend to have the opinion that it’s all they can afford. I’d argue that the $135 for the Gatewood and the $145 CDT represent money better spent (ditto a $200 synthetic Enigma over a $160 Kelty Cosmic 20), even if marginally more expensive, since there’s at least a chance that these hikers won’t be drooling over lighter gear two years from now as they commit to the hobby. (I’m also basically writing this to me in the past, which is certainly informing my thinking.)

There are obviously tons of ways of getting a light pack on a budget, and certainly for a fair bit less money than I’ve spec’d out- this is just my take on how I’d gear up for a light thru hike with stuff that most hikers would consider “real” gear (obviously a loaded term here) without dropping $3-500+ on individual items. It’s also influenced by the gear I’ve used myself or at least handled enough to be comfortable recommending looking into (if not necessarily endorsing)- there are tons of alternatives to what I’m posting about, but my commentary on items that I’ve never encountered in-person is obviously of limited value. (Hell, my commentary on the gear I HAVE used may well be of limited value.)

 

 

 

[Greg F]

I think you are better off with a real shelter.

despite the additional cost I would say a tarptent  notch or protrail would be worth both for the inexperienced backpacker

Same with the EE synthetic.  I’d go cheaper down bag or spend the extra 70 dollars and get the final product.

For the pack I’d agree that going with a lower cost REI flash will be more comfortable with higher loads.

A half Z Lite although cheap is definitely an acquired taste, a low cost option at around a pound and $60 is the klymit insulated static V

Its a good start though but for the big items I go with a buy once philosophy

My bring people into ultralight philosophy is provide a reasonable list that looks like a conventional list so that means framed pack, nice pad, real tent.  Then you can go spartan elsewhere which the rest of your list is.

[John Rowan]

Fair points all, and thanks for the look and the comments. I have these pegged as alternates, a lot of which I think are pretty in line with what you’re saying:

Shelter: Contrail/Protrail discussed heavily. Lunar Solo/Skyscape mentioned. Gatewood/Serenity combo discussed a bit as well- pricier than any of the tents but modular and used to be a good bit lighter (now just slightly lighter)

Packs: Flash 45 and Exos 48 (costlier but popular), also mention the GG Crown VC 60 which is a bit more costly but is on sale all the darn time. (And, I think it was JUST replaced by GG- need to remember to make that edit)

Pads- Prolite series (either XS if you’re cool with torso pads or reg). I have mixed feelings on the R value for the Prolite in the low 30s, as I’ve found it to be a bit low on insulation at those temps at some points, depending on how everything else was working for me. I actually have no idea how people normally respond to the idea of torso pads when suggested- my logic was that a fair amount of people are rocking (full) ZLites, even with a 20+ pound base, so the ZLite itself wouldn’t be a crazy hard sell (half-size, maybe).

Cooking: Mention that pretty cool 7oz Esbit cookset you can get for $20ish on Amazon. Acknowledge existence of alky stoves, but discourage them (fire safety/burn bans/I’ve burned myself once or twice experimenting so can’t really endorse).

Bag/Quilt: Push the down versions of EE stuff for the extra $80, talk a bit about the Cosmic 20 and REI/EMS Store brands (although at $160-180ish for a lot of those I’d take the EE synthetic), hunt for potentially useful “misfit” bags since you can find some bargains (e.g. Thermarest Haven, although you can’t find those anymore), and go used (which admittedly breaks my rule a bit). I think bags are easier to find used if you’re not super picky- if you’re just looking for a 20-30* 6′ mummy bag, you’ll find something usable (if not perfect) on here/WB in a day or so.

Agreed on the larger point that a fair number of cuts are easier sells- for me, the threshold issue really seems to be talking people out of their extra changes of clothes or things like an extra pair of pants. A smaller FAK and fewer toiletries can usually pass muster for most folks, since the weight savings are obvious and they’re not really giving anything up.

The Gatewood is obviously kind of a stretch, and it’s the pick I’ve felt the least comfortable about. I’m a bad person to make calls on this, since I migrated over to the Gatewood and other tarps very, very quickly after I started hiking and thus don’t really see them as a compromise even though most people would. While I do think that the Gatewood can be used safely and effectively without a ton of experience (just don’t pitch it in a lake-to-be), I do think that adding more focus to Tarptent-type products is probably more in line with what I’m trying to do.

I’m posting the blog tomorrow after I update some of the Lighterpack screenshots (I had weights wrong on a few items, so I need to get the corrected one.)(Plus side- a few of my mistypes were on things that are in my current kit, so I’m like 3oz lighter. Really gonna feel that savings on the big climbs). It’s an unnecessarily long 4-part post that I mostly did because it felt good to write and it was more fun working on that than it was working on work.

[David Thomas]

“talking people out of their extra changes of clothes or things like an extra pair of pants.”

“Oh, you accidentally packed your end-of-trip clothes in your pack.  Let’s leave them in the car.”

[John Rowan]

The clothes thing is actually a sore point for me because my sister (who I’ve coaxed into backpacking once or twice with plans for another jaunt this summer) insists on carrying 3+ changes of clothes and it’s slowly driving me mad, since I could drop her packweight by like FIVE POUNDS if I could just convince her…

You all feel my pain, I’m sure…it’s just such a weight/bulk savings. I need it to happen.

[Author]

Posts