David in Alaska is fine.

[DAN-Y]

Our teenager made snacks, we Facebooked, and eventually went back to sleep.

Food is comforting ;-)

 

Building to code is good ;-)

 

Glad you and family are ok……

 

Eat good, laugh a lot, enjoy life!

 

Dan

[Roger Caffin]

Hi David

Ah well, you are all alive. That’s what matters.

Had a big overnight storm here a while ago. In the morning Sue came back inside with the comment that the chook (hen) shed roof was a bit further from the shed than it should be. That too was a ‘minimal build’, from about 100 years ago. But in this case, no bangs.

Cheers

[Sr Al]

David, I live near Portland, OR and we’ve been told to expect a Fukushima size quake.  I saw somewhere that its a good idea to get a gas shut-off wench.  Is that something you have heard of, or recommend?

[Greg Mihalik]

Al – See my post on page 1.

It’s automatic, with no human intervention required.

Manual operation is easy –

When I lived in California, directly on top of the Hayward Fault, I attached a crescent to the meter with about 2 feet of cable so the wrench couldn’t be “borrowed” and not returned. It got used once as a result of a wildfire.

 

[Mike In Socal]

I, too, have a gas shutoff wrench taped to my gas line outside.  Someone had told me years ago that automatic gas shutoff valves were not necessarily a good idea because you can’t turn them back on yourself; in the event of an earthquake where you didn’t sustain any damage, you would have to wait for the gas company to turn you gas back on if your auto shutoff valve turned off.

[Sr Al]

Mike and Greg, thanks for the info.  I think I’ll be attaching a wrench to my gas line!  Since we tend to not have little quakes, I think I’ll just use it when the 9.0 hits.

[Paul Wagner]

David,

Having experienced the Mexico City quake of 1968, Loma Prieta, and two very local earthquakes in Napa (the last of which pretty much dissolved the plaster walls of our Victoria era house) I am sending you my sympathy.  Good to know that you and your family are well.  And it’s great that your town is pulling together, too. It takes time and effort to put things back into some semblance of order.

I found myself thinking of Einstein as I put things back into place in my house—exactly how they were before the quake….

And I think this line of yours requires some additional explanation, please:  “When I’ve been in an exploding dwelling, the windows act like pressure relief valves.”

 

 

[Nick Gatel]

Here’s the problem with a wrench… Between you and the leak or shut-off valve is probably an appliance with a pilot light. Oops!

And believe it or not, in California it is against the law for a homeowner to shut off their own gas… But who cares?

After a big quake in the 80’s that did some minor damage to our house but no gas leaks, I installed a seismic shut-off valve. It turns off the gas on the house side of the meter in a seismic event. It also shuts off if I accidentally bump into it.

There are also pressure shut-off valves that shut off when there is s set change in pressure differential. Also in California it is against the law to install a shut-off device on the utility side of the meter.

Another good idea is to secure a gas water heater so it cannot topple in a quake. In the People’s State of California you cannot sell a home without securing a gas water heater. Usually one strap is required. I have three.

[Greg Mihalik]

“Here’s the problem with a wrench… Between you and the leak or shut-off valve is probably an appliance with a pilot light. Oops!”

Most shutoffs are Before the meter. I don’t understand what the problem is.  Please explain like I am 5 years old.

[Nick Gatel]

Let’s say a gas pipe in your garage breaks during an earthquake. You now have a gas leak in the garage and you also have a gas operated water heater with a pilot in the garage. Boom. It could blow up before you have time to get outside to the meter and the shut-off valve.

I have been in several major earthquakes. Most happen at night and the electricity always goes out in a big quake. First thing is to figure out where you are and what happened, stagger thoughout the house to make sure no one is injured, assess damage to decide if you should leave the structure or stay in, hopefully you have flashlights readily available, and you haven’t seriously cut your feet by walking on shattered glass in the dark. If someone is seriously injured or trapped under something that fell on them, you would probably attend to them immediately. This is the reality of a major quake.

At this point, you may think about a possible gas leak, but it might already be too late. Why not invest in a device that does this automatically?

BTW, my gas valve that is no longer manufactured, but it can be reset easily by me without turning off the gas.

[David Thomas]

Mike: “Someone had told me years ago that automatic gas shutoff valves were not necessarily a good idea because you can’t turn them back on yourself; in the event of an earthquake where you didn’t sustain any damage, you would have to wait for the gas company to turn you gas back on if your auto shutoff valve turned off.”

Utilities tend to be rather paternalistic (I’m a Director of one) and arguably for good reason – there are lots of things civilians can do wrong.  Lots of gas utilities don’t want you re-lighting your own appliances – even when it is functioning normally, things get exciting if you do anything out of order.  The good news is that often, it’s only the hair on your arm/head/face and it grows back in a  few weeks.

The reason the gas company tries to never lose pressure (while we electric utilities don’t lose much sleep over power failures) is that all the pilot lights will go out.  Then, if they re-established gas flow, a few pilot-light safety valves would malfunction (a rust flake in a  solenoid valve, for instance) and then gas would leak, unburned, until it collected and found an ignition source.

Paul, “And I think this line of yours requires some additional explanation, please:  “When I’ve been in an exploding dwelling, the windows act like pressure relief valves.”

A malfunctioning pilot light took the hair off my wrist and (because the main burner vented some pre-mixed air/gas, it was a HOT flame and I got a small area of second-degree burns.  Twice, I’ve been in a “pool” of propane vapor (it’s heavier than air and hugs the ground) when it ignited.  Not pre-mixed, so not especially hot, but the second time I knew exactly what that sensation running up my lower leg, within my pants was and knew that I wouldn’t have to shave my legs that month.  The second time was inside an Airstream travel trailer.  It was in that case that all the windows away – up, east, west, just AWAY from the explosion, minimizing the peak pressures.  I stumbled out, with torn pants and a ripped shirt as my wife ran up, but she didn’t realize that I STARTED with torn pants and a ripped shirt so really, I wasn’t so bad off – just smelling of burned leg hairs.

For people considering a wrench near your gas service entrance (a good idea), there are purpose-built wrenches that have no value for doing anything else:

But Greg’s thought about cabling/chaining it to the piping is also a good one.  A lot of adjustable “crescent wrenches” will rust in the gearing and be stuck at one size, so if you go that route, leave it set to the size of the valve’s lever.  Again, only if you smell gas, should you shut off your gas service.  In one of the exploding neighbor’s houses, they’d smelled gas, opened the windows, didn’t smell gas any more so they closed the windows and went back to sleep WITHOUT TURNING OFF THE GAS OR FIXING A LEAK.  Yeah, Darwin-award behavior.  Their’s wasn’t the big explosion, their’s was the earlier, smaller explosion that left the house cockeyed but they kicked their way out through a door.

[Mike In Socal]

And believe it or not, in California it is against the law for a homeowner to shut off their own gas… But who cares?

Nick, where did you hear that it was illegal for a homeowner to shut off their own gas?  SoCal Gas has instructions on their web site on how to do it.  They even recommend keeping a wrench next you your valve.

[Nick Gatel]

Under the regulations of the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC), General Order 112-E, only SoCalGas® or its certified contractors are authorized to operate the natural gas service shut-off valve.

There is is probably an exception in case of emergencies, but I didn’t research it. I am in the process of installing an outdoor gas fireplace and was referred to this regulation and associated fees.

[David Thomas]

Nick, I’m not sure, but that might prohibit a non-authorized plumber from turning off the gas to the whole house in order to, say, replace a hot-water heater (there should be a shut-off valve for all the appliances in the house.

I’m more familiar with the Regulatory Commission of Alaska and while I’m subject to a number of its regulations as is our utility, I don’t think it can create civil or criminal statues that residents would be subject to.

 

[Jeremy and Angela]

Odd, I don’t see anything in 112-E that would suggest such a rule.  Perhaps they just don’t trust SoCal people to know better and want to discourage them from doing it?  There might be some technical details relating to the shut-off being located on the utility-owned side of the meter.  PG&E’s page on the topic seems a bit more straightforward and doesn’t mention such a rule.

-J

[Nick Gatel]

Over the years the Southern California Gas Company has been the absolute best utility company to work with. At one time they would do free inspections and relight pilots for free. The free part has changed and just about everything has a fee, and the hourly charges are now close to $150 per hour or a minimum fee. This isn’t a criticism, just what they need to do. A homeowner can run a new gas line for something like an outdoor firepit and no city permit is required, but So Cal Gas must approve it. They require an appointment to turn off the gas, then an inspection, then they will turn on the gas and relight all pilots. The turn off, turn on, and pilot re-lighting are billed to the customer along with the inspection. I’m not complaining, just stating the facts. I checked on emergency shut off by the homeowner. So Cal Gas discourages this unless there is an obvious leak, gas smell, or hissing noise. In this case they recommend turning off the gas service valve on the utility side of the meter and then calling them; however they make it very clear that the homeowner is not allowed to turn the valve back on and/or relight any pilots — the utility must do this and the minimum charge is $78. I’m not saying it is wrong or right.

[David Thomas]

I had forgotten about the ownership aspects of piping on each side of the meter.  And I can see the logic, liability-wise, from their perspective: “It’s our valve, don’t turn it back on it.”  That puts more on the homeowner if they do turn it on and don’t relight everything properly, don’t deal with the downstream valves correctly or any of the components malfunction.

[Nick Gatel]

I agree, David. Now, as a practical aspect, are you or I able to safely turn off the utility side valve, make repairs or add lines and appliances, test said work with pressure testing, and restore the system safely? I think the answer is obvious, but then I would never admit I did such a dastardly deed ;-)

Heck, So Cal told me I could direct bury black steel schedule 40 pipe without painting or wrapping.

[Author]

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