Custom Work? (Project; DCF Haven Net Tent)

[John Papini]

Hello, does anybody here do custom work, or know of a company / somebody who does?

SMD is re-releasing their Haven tarp in DCF in January 2019. To pair with this, they have the Haven Net Tent, which weights 16 oz. The floor of it is made of 30D Silicon Nylon and the netting is 20D Ultralight Polyester No See Um.

I want to reproduce the Net Tent, but with 1oz DCF instead of the 30D (maybe even 0.74; I know BA is going extra light with their new carbon tents having a 0.51oz floor), and if possible, the netting with something lighter (I’m not sure the weight of the “20D Ultralight” SMD uses, but I know YMG uses 0.65 oz no-see um netting).

Thoughts about how to make this happen, other than buying a sewing machine and teaching myself?

[Ryan “Rudy” Oury]

I know a number of the actual cottage manufacturers do custom work on their own products… I doubt many would be willing to build a replica of someone else’s though.

So first name that comes to mind of a good builder that isn’t already a cottage manufacturer is Nathan Meyerson (@nathanmeyerson) here on BPL. He’s made lots of totally custom backpacks, and also made two DCF Mondo/Mega Mids 9-12 months ago. He sold those on GS so you could search the threads, find out who bought them and ask about quality.

[Victor Jorgensen]

I can vouch for Nathan’s high quality work regarding two packs that I bought from him recently.

I own a Haven and Haven net tent from SMD.  About your choice of floor material, I wonder if you would consider Silpoly from RSBTR?  Dan Durstan makes a very compelling point about puncture resistance vs abrasion resistance.  It is in the thread about his tent being made by Massdrop.https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/massdrop-announces-a-dan-durston-tent-2-people-2-hiking-poles-29-oz-199/

[Sam Farrington]

Re: “Dan Durstan makes a very compelling point about puncture resistance vs abrasion resistance.  It is in the thread about his tent being made by Massdrop.”  (link follows)

Victor,
I’ve read Dan’s thread a number of times, but reread it (it grows with every reading), but cannot find the compelling point about puncture resistance vs abrasion resistance.
Could you post the date of Dan’s post on the thread where you saw this point. Would appreciate it. Apologies if I missed it. Thanks.
Sam F.

[John Papini]

@ Ryan and Victor, thanks I’ll reach out to Nathan.

@Victor, I can’t find the bit about puncture resistance either, but too bad Durston’s tent isn’t available in DCF!

[BlackHatGuy]

Not the tent thread, you might have meant this thread:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/hybrid-cuben-durability-whats-the-truth/#post-3562492

 

[Victor Jorgensen]

@John,  my apologies, I did not remember correctly where I had read about the floor material characteristics.  Like Sam, I have read through the growing thread here on BPL more than once, and over on the Massdrop discussion as well.

Big thanks to Doug, for remembering where the info had been laid out.  And for providing the link.

I have also copied a paragraph from the Massdrop discussion that Dan wrote 8 weeks ago.  This is good info for tent makers, I think.  Although he is comparing nylon and polyester, one could apply this reasoning to the use of cuben as well:

“Materials are an interesting topic and I certainly don’t have all the answers. My suspicion for floors is that is abrasion resistance is more important than tear strength because I’ve never put a major tear in a floor in >1000 nights of camping, but have had some decent abrasion damage. Or thinking about this another way, if a material has a high enough tear strength to suffice for the canopy, then I think it also has plenty to serve as the floor where I perceive demands on tear strength are lower (but maybe not). Puncture resistance is certainly important, but poly and nylon are pretty similar here so it’s more of a mute point in the nylon vs poly decision. So I don’t know for sure, but suspect that an equal weight of poly would hold up similarly well to nylon in a floor application and perhaps a bit better if abrasion is the big concern.”- Dan Durstan

[David Wiese]

I have the Haven tarp in DCF (13oz) from 2015. It does sting a bit that the inner weighs more (15.5oz on my scale). I wonder how much lighter you could build the inner using 1oz/sqyd DCF for the floor and .7oz/sqyd mesh like Zpacks uses.

[Mark Fowler]

I also have a Haven in dcf but plan to rebuild it with the inner permanently attached to the tarp like the Duplex. I will also put in a ridge pole and angle the poles to align along the doors so it’s a bit better able to handle bad weather.  I don’t tend to use the tarp without the inner but also prefer a solid inner (top 1/3rd in netting).

The change from sil-nylon to 1oz dcf for the floor should save (1.4 – 1.0) x 3.8yd2 will save about 1.5oz.  I am not sure what the weight of the netting used in the old inners was but there was a bit of a kerfuffle about the weight being a bit high so the change to 0.7oz netting may save 1-2 oz. By eliminating the netting in the roof you can save an additional 2.4oz (values approximate).

With regard to sil-nylon floors, my experience with a smd serenity net tent was that the floor ended up with many tiny cuts in it which caused me to now use a ground sheet with nylon floors but I have not observed that in my Solplex (1oz dcf) which now has a similar number of nights usage.

[John Papini]

@Mark, please keep me apprised of your project, as I’m looking to do something similar as I’ve described. I’m considering doing the AT and PCT back-to-back, so I’d probably want to retain the double wall nature of the Haven, but saving 4 oz on the inner (by switching to 1 oz DCF and a lighter noseeum) would make it my ideal double wall tent for the condensation prone East Coast, lighter than any other option for the space. Still, after I finish the AT, I’d consider the modification you’re describing. I don’t suppose you have any interest in helping me out? You could practice first on my net tent, hah.

@Victor, do you have any idea the weight difference between 1 oz DCF and SilPoly? Are there different weights of SilPoly? I don’t know much about it, other than people complain it is slippery. I think DCF would be fine if I use a polycro ground sheet, which I do with my current DCF tent.

On the netting, how do folks know what the options/weights are? I know there is a 0.65 oz option because that’s that YMG uses, and apparently ZPacks uses a slightly heavier 0.7 oz option. I also know Ripstop by the Roll sells .5 oz (https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/all/products/0-5-oz-ns50-noseeum-mesh) and Seattle Fabrics sells a noseeum mesh, but doesn’t list the weight (https://www.seattlefabrics.com/54-No-See-Um-Mosquito-Netting-299-linear-yard_p_92.html). Anybody have other sources of lightweight mesh / know of the lightest available option?

Unfortunately Nathan Meyerson is busy with other projects, so he cannot help me. Anybody else have experience working with somebody? I asked SMD if they could make this for me, but haven’t heard back.

[Victor Jorgensen]

@ John, I  have a DIY tent in the style of a Lunar Solo.  It utilizes the SilPoly floor fabric with the PU coating.  Weight of the fabric as stated on the RSBTR is 1.1 oz/yd2(*~1.4 oz/yd2  with sil/PU + PU4000 coating).  However, finished floor weights might equalize, if you were able to do away with the Polycryo sheet that would be used for a cuben floor, YMMV.  The SilPoly fabric is slippery yes, maybe a little less than SilNylon.  SilPoly does come in heavier weights, but the 1.1 with the PU coating is the lightest that would still make a good floor.  Unfortunately, I noticed that this fabric is out of stock over on the RSBTR website.  Hopefully this gets restocked soon.

I also have a Z-Packs AltaPlex with the cuben floor.   I plan to use a groundcloth with the cuben floor, but not with the floor of the DIY Lunar Solo with the SilPoly floor.  I have heard of pin holes developing in the cuben floors.  I also think the SilPoly has a nicer “hand-feel” when skin touches it compared to the cuben, but that is not one of the deciding factors for me.

However, maybe I should have been more restrained.  And not blurted out my enthusiasm for Poyester floors, since yours is a thread about weight savings.  Best wishes with your project.

Edit:  I see that Mark Fowler’s experience with SilNylon vs cuben floors is the opposite of mine.  One possible explanation is that we are both being more careful with site selection than at times in our pasts.

[Victor Jorgensen]

“On the netting, how do folks know what the options/weights are? I know there is a 0.65 oz option because that’s that YMG uses, and apparently ZPacks uses a slightly heavier 0.7 oz option. I also know Ripstop by the Roll sells .5 oz (https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/all/products/0-5-oz-ns50-noseeum-mesh) and Seattle Fabrics sells a noseeum mesh, but doesn’t list the weight (https://www.seattlefabrics.com/54-No-See-Um-Mosquito-Netting-299-linear-yard_p_92.html). Anybody have other sources of lightweight mesh / know of the lightest available option?”

The .67 netting from RSBTR is the lightest that I would use.  I had a hammock made with the .5 netting by one of the cottage venders, when that fabric first became available.  The material reminded me of the weight and feel of women’s pantyhose.  Although, I didn’t actually have any problems with it, it seemed way more fragile than the .67.  I sold that hammock after only one night of use.  Later when working on a DIY hammock net, I found that it was much harder to work with the .5 ounce netting, because the wispy fabric has so little structure to it.   The slightly stiffer fabric of the .67 weight is much easier to hem also, FWIW.

The hammock maker stopped offering the .5 netting as an option, and I don’t know of a single instance where that .5 fabric is being used on tent inners. However, I am hopeful of hearing about success stories from others.

 

 

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