Compact/light weight propane canisters

[Roger Caffin]

It may be just my incompetence, but I cannot even find the Boss company on the web now. Other ‘Boss’ brands (like audio), yes, but not the Boss propane thing.
Hum …

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

Enviro-Safe Refrigerants, Inc. is the company that sells the Boss Torch. Contact them to find out why the canisters are no longer available.

[DAN-Y]

Roger and others across the pond, small canisters available in the UK and maybe other countries. Canisters have lindal valve connection. Follow the link, do some research.

https://cpc.farnell.com/gosystem/2175/butane-propane-gas-mix-170g/dp/TL19782

 

MSDS:

https://content.interlinebrands.com/product/document/10136/2495122_SDS_E.pdf

 

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

I don’t see anywhere that it says what the percentage is of propane and butane

or n butane vs isobutane

The label says propane/butane mix.  I’d guess 30% propane, 35% isobutane, 35% nbutane.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Dan

Yes, Go-Systems. I have one of their canisters. There are others too I think.
The companies do not fill their own canisters. That is usually done in Asia.

It is my impression that some vendors might not even know the difference between n-butane and isobutane. Perhaps.

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

Keep searching for the percentages. The fuel is for torches. Good for welding is what is said in a few different sites. Good for cold climates. Sound familiar?

[Roger Caffin]

Spin, all is spin. Without verifiable numbers, all is spin.
Mind you, butane and propane have quite similar calorific values, so the details may not matter too much – for welding.

[DAN-Y]

You’re missing the major importance……the design of the canister and it’s repurpose abilities. It’s ability to withstand the pressure of propane.

[Roger Caffin]

It’s ability to withstand the pressure of propane.
Given the hard fact that the Boss propane canister seems to have completely disappeared from the web, I have to wonder whether it had a certified ability to comply with the DoT regulations.

Horrible thought: would one be legally safe in posting a filled Boss canister today?

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

Cost of manufacturing the canister to withstand the pressure is what caused the American company to withdraw it from the market. ;)

Refiling is only done here on BPL per the history given in several threads. Or maybe it started in Australia by the Walkers:)

It’s been an interesting ride……

[Jerry Adams]

Somebody should put one in the freezer with a stove screwed on.  Let it sit for an hour to get down to temp.  Pull it out of freezer, open valve, and see if any gas comes out.

That should give you an idea how much propane it has.

Or, afix a thermometer to the bottom and see at what temperature gas starts coming out.  That is the boiling temperature.

Or take it on winter trips with different temps and see the lowest temp that gas flows out.

Roger’s charts of different propane/butane percentages for pressure vs temp will show what the ratio is.

[Roger Caffin]

Cost of manufacturing the canister to withstand the pressure is what caused the American company to withdraw it from the market. ;)
Curiosity impels me: where (URL) does this information come from? I would love to know.

I can imagine that this might be so, but every other canister vendor has had to deal with those costs, and has done so successfully.
Of course, if mfr A can spread those costs over 1,000,000 canisters while mfr B has to spread those costs over just 10,000 canisters, I can see that B might have a problem.

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

researching this important question further :)

in the picture above it says butane/propane mix – so that’s probably not pure propane

but in the video dan-y posted on page 4, when he put the canister in the freezer and let it reach temp, then took it out and put a stove on it, it ran just fine.  freezers are 0F.  even isobutane has a boiling point of 11F so there must be a lot of propane in the canister

it’s just that that canister doesn’t look as sturdy as the standard one pound propane bottles.  That makes me question that it’s really 100% propane.

I wonder what one of the Boss canisters weighs when it’s empty?

[DAN-Y]

At one point in time Roger determined the Boss canisters were 70 propane and 30 butane. That would make them ideal for brave souls going hammock hanging in -30 degree temps..think “Shug” Sean Emery.

[Bill Budney]

Jerry got me thinking about canister weights:

• A one-pound Coleman tank weighs about a pound when empty.
• A 100g (net) butane mix canister weighs about 100g empty.
• A 4oz Boss canister weighs 7.8 oz full, so 3.8 oz empty?
• A Flame King 1/4 pound tank weighs 8.8 oz full (according to Amazon), so 4.8 oz empty?

The Flame King tank needs a 1.1 oz (31 g) adapter to convert to Lindal valve.

So it appears that a Flame King tank “costs” roughly 2-3 oz in carry weight (if we include some kind of stand to secure the balance when used with an upright canister stove).

Clearly this is a less elegant solution than Boss propane canisters, but it has the advantages of being currently available and presumably has good safety margins since it is intended to be refilled by the customer.

Does that sound correct?

[Jerry Adams]

yeah, that sounds correct

there’s that air horn canister that has been mentioned on some other thread.  That weighs less.  I think it has a regular lindal connection

[DAN-Y]

Cost of manufacturing the canister to withstand the pressure is what caused the American company to withdraw it from the market. ;)
Curiosity impels me: where (URL) does this information come from? I would love to know.

 

It was “speculation”. :)

[Bill Budney]

Yes, I have one of those. I have not been successful in fully filling it, although I have not tried hard. Maybe it needs to be emptied again to get rid of whatever gas was in it, or needs more freezing or something. I decided it was more trouble than it is worth because it doesn’t save much weight compared to a 100g canister.

Do I recall David Thomas saying that those tiny cans should be able to take propane?

[jscott]

“Without knowing the exact specs on the aluminum it’s hard to calculate the “theoretical burst pressure, but if .013 can pass the 270 psi test then .016 should clear 330 psi if it’s linear. This would be reached around 60 degrees C, and it’s hard to imagine…”

Sorry,  I was just passing through looking for the bathroom. Isopropane versus propene? air nail guns? PSI? Mole fractions?  are you guys cooking up moles? I suppose you can save on carried weight that way. Ah well good ol’Pocket Rocket, right?  Flame on you mighty…moles. Carry on. My bladder has reached the limits of its psi…have to move  on…you’re welcome…

[jscott]

and so another of my bad self deprecating jokes brings the conversation to a halt. please carry on. I really am learning stuff.

[Roger Caffin]

Ah well.
I suspect that ‘isopropane’ should really be called isobutane.
Propene has a double carbon bond where propane does not.
Bladder psi – pass.
Details, details . . .

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

Were talking about “torch” fuel for extreme weather conditions. The containers that are made to contain the fuel.

2,498 Fahrenheit  1,370 Celsius

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2859149.pdf

[DAN-Y]

CAMPINGMOON Empty Refillable Cylinder 35g Standard for Backpacking Camping EN417 Lindal Valve Silver TC-28

Can be filled with propane.

That’s all folks!!!

[Dustin V]

I actually went down a rabbit-hole looking at the above Campingmoon canister last week. It looks like it would be a great option when space is the priority over weight because the 35g is about 6 ounces empty. However it would probably need some kind of canister stand/tripod, so unless you’re already carrying one…

Their 15g capacity model looks fun for day-hike coffee breaks, though.

[Roger Caffin]

Campingmoon: fascinating stuff.
Just how compatible they are with standard stoves is not clear. Is that a standard screw thread on top? Could be. We need someone to check.
Do they have DoT approval? That is not clear either.

The idea of a refillable canister is attractive, but is it legal in USA? All the other brands (with DoT approval) say not, but why?

Off the top of my head, and really I am guessing, it almost seems as though Campingmoon is trying to create a new and different standard for canisters and connections. If true, that could be an uphill battle.

Cheers

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