Clothing layers

[Terry Hoover]

Narrowing my Philmont layering system to get ready for shakedowns starting next month.

Wearing:

• boxer briefs (UA or Ex Officio)
• Darn Tough socks…experimenting with Injiji toe socks, both liners and the heavier ones to wear alone
• Zip off pants (Columbia silver ridge or Magellan)
• Columbia or similar wicking t-shirt, short sleeve
• Long sleeve “fishing shirt”
• Deciding between wide brimmed hat and ballcap
• Merrell Moab Ventilators (low) or trail runners…testing this winter/spring

To carry:

• 1-2 pairs extra socks
• 1 pair extra underwear
• 100 weight fleece pullover (to wear on cold mornings or at elevation)
• Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (cold evenings and my pillow)…can sleep in if we get cold nights at elevation
• Don’t know if I need both insulating layers.  They are both light.  The fleece is more of an active layer while the Nano Puff is for nights and pillow.
• Dri Ducks rain suit
• buff
• knit hat

To sleep in:

• Light poly gym shorts
• Lightweight wicking t-shirt
• Light sleeping socks (more for dirt than anything)

Considering taking a very light (silk weight Terramar or something) base layer top and bottom to have available to sleep in (warmth and/or keep bag cleaner) or to use as a base layer while hiking, if cold.

Any and all insight appreciated.

Terry

[Christopher *]

Not specific for Philmont, but if you are considering warmer clothes for “uh-oh” sleeping warmth, don’t forget you have the rain suit. It can get a bit clammy, may dampen your sleep base layer, and will probably shorten the DriDucks lifespan … but they are relatively cheap, you already have them in the pack and they can give you that few extra degrees of comfort if you find yourself in need.

I have found myself wearing my silnylon rain suit as an impromptu sleeping VBL on more than one occasion. While the DriDucks propore material is “breathable”, it should still function adequately.

[Matthew / BPL]

Not Philmont specific but I live and hike in AZ and backpack in the Sierra. I prefer Railriders Eco Mesh pants over any convertible pants I have ever owned. I like the sun and thorn protection of long pants with controlable ventilation with the side zips. I don’t miss zipping the legs off.

Otherwise your setup seems reasonable for SW summer backpacking at altitude.

[Steve G]

Terry — I think you have a good list — my random thoughts:

Wide Brim Hat (defintely!)  (why protect only half your head / neck?)

Bring a Cotton Bandana — stick in your pocket — wear around your neck — “do rag” pirate style — or around your head Axel Rose style — keeps you cool / neck shaded / face clean / grabs hot pot handles / washes easily / hangs on pack to dry.  It’s impressive how much evaporative cooling a wet bandanna around your neck provides in the very low humidity Philmont environment.  My Scouts were “amazed” (since we live in ultra humid Thailand and the bandanna trick is pretty pointless here)

Convertible pants sound great — I wore a pair of convertible Scout pants/shorts with the brief cut out and the belt cut out (I like a separate nylon D-ring belt through the real belt loops) — they were awesome.  I also wore a Columbia fishing shirt (SPF 40+) and it was great — sleeves roll down and collar flips up to give sun protection.

I’d bring 2-3 extra pairs of wool / wool blend socks (I wear the 1/4 or very low ones so they take up almost no room / weight) — you just can’t go wrong changing socks 1-2 times a day on long hikes.

Also, what about camp shoes?  Not everybody likes them but you can get super light pair of water shoes or the Sanuk-style shoes and a cheap ‘biner to clip to outside of your pack.  they are great in camp AND during a long lunch break or activity on the trail.  You’ll see a lot of the rangers sporting some form of “Teva-type” sandals with socks in the evenings as their camp shoes.  These are great for water crossings, too.

“Considering taking a very light (silk weight Terramar or something) base layer top and bottom to have available to sleep in”  (YES!!)

I don’t know what kind of sleeping bag you will bring — but a fleece hat is a great part of your sleep system too.

Have fun!!  Steve

[Aubrey W. Bogard]

Terry,

I believe that you have a very good starting list.  A few thoughts:

• I took both a down jacket and a merino hoody midlayer for our July trek this year.  Our lowest temperature was 42F, and I ended up never wearing the puffy, but I did use it as a pillow, and it might have come in handy had we had more wind.
• I agonized about the number of shirts to tell our crew to bring, as the official packing list is certainly excessive in ultralighter terms.  When your ranger does the gear shakedown, he may ask to see that you actually brought two wicking shirts, etc…  We did, and we could have certainly gotten away with less, but it was nice to have a spare when laundry was drying.
• I’m not normally a fan of convertible pants, but they do make sense at Philmont where long trousers are required for conservation projects.
• Regarding laundry:  When we were there, we only had one day of rain.  The trails in the South Country were very dusty.  There were sinks and washboards at the staffed camps that had showers, so having a few 2oz flip-top plastic bottles full of Camp Suds to share amongst the Crew for laundry and showers was helpful.
• The Philmont culture is very old-skool with regard to footwear, and all of the lists and Rangers will advocate boots.  Our experience was that those of us in trail runners were allowed to wear them.

[Terry Hoover]

Thanks for the great feedback so far.

@Christopher.  I have slept in my Dri Ducks a time or two when the temperatures dropped a bit below what I was prepared for.  Don’t think I will get into that position at Philmont, but certainly an option.

@Matthew.  Thanks for the heads up on the Eco Mesh.  I also like that they have the Insect Shield.  Might be something to consider.

@Steve.  Two cotton bandanas are on the list for sure, and probably do need to go with the wide brimmed hat.  Leaning toward no camp shoes, especially if I end up with trail runners.  We’ll see how the shakedowns go.  I did a 10 miler last weekend with full pack with the trail runners and they felt great. Will be doing more on rocky trails in the coming months.  For about 8 ounces for the lightweight Terramar base layers, that’s a lot of options for not too much weight penalty.

@Aubrey.  Yes on the camp suds.  Will likely also have a 2 gallon zip lock bag for a backcountry washing (rinsing) machine.  Don’t particularly like zip offs either.  I’m mostly a shorts guy…pants in winter.  But, as you said, have to accommodate the conservation project and don’t really want to carry extra pants in my pack.  Also thinking that I’ll stay a little cleaner.  The puffy may be a last minute call depending on our trek and the weather pattern.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and suggestions.

Terry

[Bruce Tolley]

@Terry

Check the highest altitudes of the camps on your itinerary. If some of them are high, you might well need both the insulating layers you describe, esp if they are also part of your sleeping system. We had several cold nights including one on top of Mt Phillips where it reached the mid 30s. The crew we met coming down from Phillips said they had sleet and hail the night before and reported in to be freezing.

We were there during monsoon season and it rained every day starting at about 130 so I could not really dry my 2nd pair of wool socks on the back of my pack.

Depending on your itinerary, I think water shoes might be a waste of time. On several days we had 10 to 15 water crossings. There was not time for Scouts and Scouters who had packed water shoes to change into them.  I would recommend not goretex trail runners or light mid hiking shoes.

[ed dzierzak]

Just a couple of add-ons…

Long pants required for cons, as mentioned, but also for horse-back rides (Beaubien, Clarks Fork & Ponil) and spar-pole climbing (Pueblano & Crater Lake). There may be others, but I don’t recall any.

Philmont issues a bottle of camp suds. We’ve never used more than half a bottle on a trek. It’s used for washing everything.

[Wilson M]

Terry,

Here’s what I’d recommend:

1. Ditch the 100 fleece if you’ll be bringing the nano puff. No need for that much insulation. I would bring the long sleeve wicking t- shirt to sleep in though. Even on top of Phillips you’ll be fine with all your other layers on and no fleece.

2. Definitely go with trail runners. I hiked the ranger marathon (46 mikes across the ranch in 18 hours) in my Salomon XA Pro Gtx’s, and they were amazing. The trails are all so well maintained; there’s no need for heavy boots. More weight on the feet sucks.

3. Definitely go with a tough zip off pant. Something like the Kuhl Liberator Conv pant or one of the zip off sold at base camp. Makes it really easy to transition into activities, cons, or night time campfires, etc.

4. If your really concerned about rain and can spend the $, consider something sturdier than dri ducks or frog toggs. Gore Tex Pro is some awesome and sturdy fabric if you can find a jacket made outta that stuff. Also, UL Equipment makes a rain kilt that would be nice for easy on/off in all the afternoon tstorms over your zip offs. Trust me, it rains EVERY afternoon at Philmont usually starting about 1:30 or 2. You can literally set your watch to it.

Is this your first time out to the ranch? Enjoy!

-Wilson

 

[Terry Hoover]

Here’s my current list.  Primary tweak is dropping my 100 weight fleece and adding a long sleeve wicking t-shirt (hoodie).

Wearing:

• boxer briefs (UA or Ex Officio)
• Darn Tough socks…experimenting with Injiji toe socks, both liners as well as the heavier ones to wear alone
• Zip-off pants (Columbia silver ridge or Magellan)
• Columbia or similar wicking t-shirt, short sleeve
• Long sleeve button-up “fishing shirt”
• Wide-brimmed hat (is a Tilley worth it?)
• Merrell Moab Ventilators (low) [testing trail runners (have Innov 8 295’s but may look at others) this winter/spring…leaning toward trail runners]

To carry:

• 2 pairs extra socks (and liners if I end up using them)
• 1 pair extra underwear
• Long sleeve wicking t-shirt / hoodie (mid layer, sleeping, etc.)
• Silk weight bottom base layer (probably Terramar)
• Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (cold evenings and my pillow)…can sleep in if we get cold nights at elevation
• Dri Ducks rain suit (considering rain skirt and Marmot Precip or OR Helium II)
• buff
• knit hat
• light gloves or glove liners

To sleep in:

• Light poly gym shorts
• Lightweight wicking t-shirt
• Light sleeping socks (more for dirt than anything)

[Terry Hoover]

@Wilson.  Great feedback.  This is my first trip to PSR.  My two oldest boys will be going as well.  Really looking forward to it.

Terry

[Terry Hoover]

Clothing layering based with latest tweaks.  We have trek 29 in starting August 5th.  So, rainy season.  Also, will have two camps at 10,500 (Copper Park), the rest at 8,500 or under.

Any additional feedback appreciated.

Wearing:

• Under Armour boxer briefs
• Darn Tough socks…experimenting with Injiji toe socks, both liners as well as the heavier ones to wear alone
• REI Sahara zip-off pants
• Columbia wicking t-shirt, short sleeve
• Bass Pro long sleeve button-up “fishing shirt”
• Wide-brimmed hat – military boonie
• Merrell Moab Ventilators (low)

To carry:

• 2 pairs extra socks (and liners if I end up using them)
• 1 pair extra underwear
• Long sleeve wicking t-shirt / hoodie (mid layer, sleeping, etc.)
• Silk weight bottom base layer (probably Terramar)
• Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (cold evenings and my pillow)…can sleep in if we get cold nights at elevation
• Academy light weight rain suit
• buff
• knit hat
• light gloves or glove liners

To sleep in:

• Light poly gym shorts
• Lightweight wicking t-shirt
• Light sleeping socks (more for dirt than anything)

[William Harmon]

Terry,

Everything looks good except maybe rain gear. However, it’s ultimately up to you as to what you take. I would like to clarify that August and late-July are called the Monsoon and may be called the “rainy season” but aren’t truly that always rainy. The Monsoon typically results in normal afternoon thunderstorms with little in the way of morning or overnight storms. However, the Monsoon does include an increased chance of larger storms in the Pacific making their way up onto land and causing long-term rainy segments. Those events are more difficult to predict than the afternoon thunderstorms, which are much more common. Even these afternoon storms are not guaranteed and everything changes between years and even during the summer.

Two years ago there was such a persistent rain that several staffed camps had trouble getting resupplied due to muddy roads. However, last year it was dry enough to put Philmont back into a Fire Ban. So I would suggest, for those possible rainy stretches, sturdier rain gear that might be more waterproof (and therefore less breathable) but with more ventilation features (Sierra Designs Pack Trench or Elite Cagoule, or Outdoor Research Foray). However, like I said at the start of my post, it’s ultimately up to you. You could wait until 5-10 days before your trek while continuing to check the weather and switch out rain gear as needed then or even bring it to Base Camp and ask your Ranger for their suggestions. Hope that helps and enjoy your vacation!

[Terry Hoover]

Last update…maybe:

Clothing layering based with latest tweaks.  We have trek 29 in starting August 5th.  So, rainy season.  Also, will have two camps at 10,500 (Copper Park), the rest at 8,500 or under.

Any additional feedback appreciated.

Wearing:

• Under Armour boxer briefs
• Injiji toe socks – running style, not the liners
• REI Sahara zip-off pants
• Columbia wicking t-shirt, short sleeve
• Bass Pro long sleeve button-up “fishing shirt” (tempted to leave this at home)
• Wide-brimmed hat – military boonie
• Altra Lone Peak 3.0’s

To carry:

• 2 pairs extra socks (and liners if I end up using them)
• 1 pair extra underwear, you know, just in case
• Long sleeve wicking t-shirt / hoodie
• Light weight bottom base layer (probably Terramar)
• Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (cold evenings and my pillow)…can sleep in if we get cold nights at elevation
• Marmot Precip rain jacket, inexpensive Academy rain pants
• buff
• knit hat
• light gloves or glove liners

To sleep in:

• Light poly gym shorts
• Lightweight wicking t-shirt
• Light sleeping socks (more for dirt than anything)

[TAG in AZ]

Our trek starts this Saturday.  We are doing itinerary 25, but, similarly, we will be camping mostly below 10k.  My list is very similar to yours.  My only comments:

+ long sleeve button up shirt – I’m debating, but I’ll probably end up taking mine rather than a long sleeve wicking t-shirt.  It is a bit lighter and a little more versatile. I have both in my basecamp bag and this will really be a game time decision for me.
+ I think the Lone Peaks will be fine. I’m taking La Sportiva Wildcats and don’t expect any problems.
+ I’m skipping the lightweight bottom base layer. I think that with a pair of zip offs and my rain pants, I should be ok on the lower half unless it snows.
+ I’m using merino socks to hike in (no liners) and have a pair of toe socks for sleeping in – I like to put a light coating of zinc oxide on my feet at bed time to help them recover and toe socks let my toes get happy while I sleep.
+ for light gloves, I’m taking rain mittens instead of gloves. I don’t expect to need them, but they are light and small.
+ In addition to a buff, I’m also taking a bandana. I know the buff is similarly multipurpose, but I like the soft cotton of a well broken in bandana. I also use my bandana for a pillow case, so I’d rather not use it as a sweat rag.

[Terry Hoover]

Thanks TAG.  I hope you check this after getting back…would love to get your input after the trek.  We leave on August 4.

Terry

[Nate Ward]

experimenting with Injiji toe socks, both liners as well as the heavier ones to wear alone

 

Give the Injinji  a real shot…In 2010 I used the standard liners and smartwool….had issues with hot spots and soreness due to my toes rubbing together…….2016 I went to Injinji….no issues at all…none…nada…not a single hot spot ….nothing….

I was using the Trail weight 2.0’s and will use them again in 2018.

[Terry Hoover]

Thanks Nate. I have had good luck with the 2.0’s as well. Am also taking a wool liner sock to wear over them in case I get hot spots on the back I’m my heel. My trail runners are a little light on padding in the back. May also pretape the back of my heel.

[TAG in AZ]

Post Philmont follow up – it was significantly warmer on our trek (715-C, itinerary 25) than I expected.  We had several days close to 90 degrees and generally warm nights.  Philmont is in the middle of monsoon.  We had rain almost every afternoon — our strategy was to be near shelter by 2 or 3 in the afternoon to avoid the worst of the downpours.  Regarding gear:

+ I’m glad I took a button up shirt – it was useful for sun protection and I wore it almost every morning while breaking camp.
+ trail runners are perfect – no need for boots.  The trails at Philmont are amazing.  The only time I wished for a bit more stability was summiting Baldy – the trail above tree line is rocky and steep.
+ a mistake in my earlier post – I used my buff as a pillow cast and neck covering (sun). I’m glad I took both buff & bandana. My bandana was my sweat rag, wash cloth and pot holder.
+ I didn’t miss long underwear bottoms – I wore shorts every day. I only zipped on my lower pant legs for the Cons project.
+ I didn’t use my rain pants or my rain gloves. We were luck and didn’t have to hike in more than a light rain. Most of the time, I just used my umbrella. I only put on my rain jacket on 2 occasions — and that was more to keep warm during 2 biblical downpours than to stay dry (we were on the porch @ staff camps both times).
+ I missed having a pair of light gloves the day we summited Baldy. The day started cold and grey. I was sweating hard, but my hands were cold on my trekking poles.
+ I took a 30 degree down quilt (enlightened equipment) and never needed the full warmth. YMMV – we never camped about 10k.
+ the piece of gear I used more than expected was my Sea to Summit Ultra Sil bucket – I used it to carry water to put out campfires, to carry water from distance water sources and as a wash bucket for my clothes and myself. Washing was a real necessity for me. After a few days on the trail, I couldn’t stand my own smell — and, with our shower on day 11, I made it a point to take a little man-bath every day and get the dirt and grim off before the oops bag went up.

[Terry Hoover]

@TAG – great information.  Thanks.  We leave Friday…

[ed dzierzak]

@tagiam Thanks for the report. I have used socks for mittens when I’ve forgotten gloves. Dual use.

[John O]

Terry,

How did it go?  Was your gear adequate?  Did they scrutinize the adults and scouts equally or more focused on scouts?

[Terry Hoover]

Clothing worked great. Very happy with the Altra Loan Peak trail runners.  Injinji 2.0 running socks with a liner on top worked great as well.  Only took one spare sock/liner…wish I would have taken the second spare set as we had a lot of rain (much more than the normal afternoon storm).  I did have dry sleeping socks each night though.  Next time I’ll take some bread bags or use the Philmont food bags to put over my dry camp socks (when wearing my wet shoes around camp).  Never used the rain pants.  Rarely used the rain jacket except for colder mornings and occasionally on rainy afternoons in camp…just walked in the rain and got wet (I overheat quickly when hiking with a rain jacket).  More thorough gear review coming later.

@John O – our ranger was one of the Naval Academy guys.  We were his second of three crews.  He did great but really skimped on the shakedown…took only about 30 minutes when some of the other regular rangers took more like an hour or an hour and a half.  Just read through the list but didn’t really look at our gear.  Both of our crews were very prepared though and I believe he sensed that.  We knew quite a bit more than he did about outdoors and backpacking, but obviously let him do his job…he was a great guy.

[Author]

Posts