Can you turn an active insulation piece into a non-active insulation piece?

[Joey G]

Can an active insulation piece be a non-active insulation piece if paired with a wind hoody? For instance if I have a proton lt or nano-air could I take a wind shirt like the Squamish to make it non-breathable when around camp doing nothing?

I’ve looked at getting a puffy jacket, but I’m trying to get gear that I could also use in everyday life. I live in Texas and I would never wear a puffy in the winter here. I would however wear one of these popular active insulation pieces ( proton, atom, nano-air, etc…). So I’d like to get one piece I can wear for winter’s here as well as when I backpack. However, if the best solution is to just get a down jacket for sitting around camp then I’ll bite the bullet and get one.

[Bill Budney]

Insulation comes in many forms, styles, and amounts — what you carry is personal to you and the conditions in which you hike. If your Proton + windshirt is warm enough for sitting in the temperatures that you expect, then it’s fine. If not, then you will want more. It is pretty much that simple. The only thing special about “active” insulation is that it breathes well, to minimize moisture accumulation inside the jacket or the insulation itself.

Some commonly recommended puffies are extremely light, both in weight and in warmth. There is no magic to them.

OTOH, warmth:weight ratios go something like this: AD/Airmesh < Apex/synthetic insulation < down. So you can have greater warmth:weight with a puffy, but that may not be important if your nighttime temperature doesn’t come close to freezing.

[Joey G]

I currently don’t have a proton or wind shirt. I’m trying to research into what I should buy to build up my layering system. I was hoping to do research that could reduce me having to do research in the field to get results ( ie. buying things I won’t use ).

So maybe another way to phrase the question might be, does anyone not use a dedicated non-active layer and just use an active-layer and wind layer instead? If so, how does that work for you? Is there anytime this doesn’t work for you?

Thanks

[Bill Budney]

I recommend reversing that path. Grab whatever you have in the closet, and take that into the field, even if just for day hikes. Find out what you like and don’t like. THEN buy expensive stuff that suits you.

Otherwise, you (and everyone who helps you) are just making wild guesses.

That said, if your budget is flexible, then it is hard to go wrong with one layer of Alpha Direct or Airmesh. I prefer a zipper for dumping heat, but some people are fine without them.

EDIT: An active layer plus windshirt is insufficient when you feel cold wearing it.

EDIT 2: You can be as warm as you like wearing something as simple as t-shirts. Simply layer more to handle colder weather. I knew a runner who ran all year around wearing t-shirts — he would use up to 14 of them for extremely cold conditions. I’m not saying that is optimal for warmth:weight, but it IS a good way to learn what works for you at different temperatures. Keep notes if that helps.

EDIT 3: If you want to keep your budget tighter, then any fleece will still perform well. The cheapest fleece is just as warm as alpha direct (and is still highly breathable) — it just weighs a few ounces more. You can pay 10x the price (or more) for the lightest weight stuff.

[Steve S]

Yes, to: Can an active insulation piece be a non-active insulation piece if paired with a wind hoody?

[Terran Terran]

I’d get the active insulation first. Unless you’re planning a cold trip or want to take advantage of the current sales. Depending on what you already have.. Depends on everyday use as well. Ultralight jackets rip easier. I do wear a synthetic jacket. It still rips, but it doesn’t lose insulation.

[Joey G]

Thanks all.

[Mark Verber]

+1 to Bill’s recommendations. My recommendations:

1) figuring our the comfort ranges of what you already own before buying anything.  one of the best investments you can make is a notebook and a logging thermometer.

2) from a warmth/weight heavy base < fleece < alpha direct < high loft synthetic < down.

alpha direct under a shell actually is better than high loft synthetic or down when moderately active >40F because all the weight goes to insulation rather than the fabric surrounding the insulation. If you have the money, Alpha Direct is a good investment. Money tight? 100wt fleece is a good alternative.

3) Keep in mind that you need 4x the insulation when doing light work as heavy work.

Some notes: https://verber.com/insulation-layer/

 

 

[baja bob]

It all depends on temperature.  Are we talking never below 50 degrees?  Sure, you would be ok.  Below that, I think you will start getting uncomfortable, but everyone’s limit will be different. I’ve read someone claim they are fine with a wind shirt and a 60gm weight Alpha direct hoodie down to 40.  I wouldn’t want to do that.

These active insulation layers are thin and not great static insulation pieces.  Again, everyone is different.

[Thom]

Yes but most synthetics don’t fair well stuffed in a pack. Decathlon puffy w hood is on sale for $60. cheep warmth.

[Dan]

It all depends on temperature.

That’s exactly what I was thinking while reading the responses. A fleece and windshirt are fine if it isn’t too cold at night. You could probably make it work down to 40 degrees if you don’t mind being a little chilly or wrapping your quilt around you. But even in the summer, it’s not really an effective approach in the mountains, where you can easily be waking up to sub-freezing temps.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I used a Senchi and an EE Copperfield windshirt on the Arizona Trail last year. The two together are much warmer than either one by themselves so the short answer to your question is yes, they become a static insulation piece. But depending on the fleece layer and the down jacket you have, probably not quite as warm as a down jacket.

[Terran Terran]

It becomes “active” insulation with a static layer.

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