BMI… does it mean much? Misleading? Good basic info/guideline?

[Kattt]

I hear a lot about BMI. The idea I am getting is that it is a basic guideline but a lot of people  make too much of it. It can actually be misleading by not giving any idea of weight distribution among other things….

Why bother have the chart if a number of experts go through great lengths to tell us to ignore it?

I ask because I had not weighed myself since the last doc appointment….but my pedometer App kept suggesting I enter my height and weight ( age and gender too) because apparently there is more going on with it than just counting steps after all. So I found a scale and my phone calculated my life and now I have a number. Ignore it and go by what I feel ? use it as a base so I can see what running does to me? But if I lose fat and  build muscle it won’t change my BMI to reflect that anyway.

Yeah, I eat very healthfully and my number seemed very good but how would it know..

Thoughts?

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

I think personally it’s evil……and a scam by insurance companies….but it can be a good base number, if you are starting a new workout. However? I’d go by how you feel. Do your pants get saggier, do you measure your arms, legs, etc and they get smaller? Do you see muscles forming.

[Todd Stough]

BMI is very much skewed by muscle.

I’d say going by waist measurements or leanness is a much better method.

BMI feels like a cop out too.  “oh my BMI is healthy so I’m good to go”  Even if you have no muscle at all and are fat.

At 5’11” and 190 pounds I’m in the over weight bucket.  Yes I can loose a few pounds but I’m always going to be in the upper range, especially when I lift weights.

[Kattt]

@Sarah @Todd

that’s pretty much my thinking too.

I definitively agree with the BMI number possibly being a cop out. I liked my number enough to want to brag about it a bit but then I know that ideally  I want the weight distributed a little better. I can see how I could have this same number but  range from quite out of shape to quite toned and “it” would never know.

ps. Yes, the pants are getting a little looser.

[Todd Stough]

@Kat  You know the saying.  Pics or it didn’t happen.  :)

[Jerry Adams]

BMI is just a rough rule for determining overweightness just upon the most easily measured numbers, height and weight

It would be better to measure density but that would require immersing you in a tank of water which is much more difficult.  You could measure circumference at various places like around waist and hips.

Also you could factor in age – maybe it’s okay to gain a little weight as you get older?

If you’re going to have a serious health event it can be good to be a little overweight – more body stores to draw on as you’re recovering

BMI is better than nothing

[W I S N E R !]

You can be weak, sick, and completely out of shape and have a perfectly “healthy” BMI.  That says a lot about the validity of this number to me. As Todd says, BMI doesn’t factor in muscle very well.

Evander Holyfield has weighed in at 6’1″, 226.  By pure BMI number logic, Holyfield is at the upper end of overweight and presumably out of shape.

Looks fit to me….

 

 

[Kattt]

 

@Jerry, agreed. I am measuring….but not posting ;)

@Todd pictures of the number or me?

Here’s me last March ( awkward attempt at a selfie and not sure what to do  with my hands) and according to the scale I am two pounds lighter now ( was up four from then and now back down). Yeah I picked a picture that best hides the part in the middle I would like moved elsewhere….and the safe distance blurrs the age (49 :-o!).

 

 

[Kattt]

@Craig,

now that’s not even fair!! And right above  my picture too…

;)

[David Thomas]

I’ve gone on some trips with some big guys.  Really big guys.  Like “I’m not half the man they are”, literally.  But they’re active, working in construction.

Inside a big, active guy or gal is a strong person.  Really high BMI.  Bad ratio of waist/hip, etc.  And not as healthy as if they were slimmer.  But they could carry 120 pounds of elk meat up out of the canyon and I couldn’t.

When I’ve wanted to lose weight / get in better shape, metrics others than weight were better motivators.  Exercise + reduce intake is better than just dieting, but I gain weight for 2-3 weeks before I start to lose it.  10,000-calories of muscle weighs more than 10,000 calories of fat, so I can eat 1,000 calories less than my metabolism each day, drop fat, and build muscle which results in a weight gain at first.

So some objective measure of fitness, maybe how many flights of stairs can you climb before you’re winded, or how long does it take to hike up to the ridge are helpful for me.  Those metrics start improving sooner.

[Todd Stough]

Kat you look pretty lean there.

You know I think the best measure of progress is to just measure your waist or butt or what ever with a tape measure.   Don’t check it too often.

Workout wise.  Lift heavy stuff

Diet.  Limit your carb intake and eat real foods.

 

Scales lie in the short term, even clothing fit can lie.  I and my wife find that as we start to squat and dead lift our legs plump up, muscle starts to build.  It appears we are getting fatter but really it is the first stage of burning that fat.

[W I S N E R !]

OK, so here comes the straight dope.  Because a picture is worth a thousand words….

I picked Evander Holyfield because he’s an athlete with nearly the exact same height, weight, and BMI as me.  I’m a half inch taller than him, but the exact same weight (6’1.5″, 226″).  Technically, my BMI is .4 LESS than Evander Holyfield.  Compare the picture of him above with that of myself, taken 5 minutes ago.  (I could sure use a professional photographer and some better lighting….)

So which one of us needs to lose weight?  I’d love to believe I’m as strong as Evander….the evidence is just hiding under some fluff.

I think it’s a great example of the variance within BMI.

At the same time, I can jog a marathon (slowly, but I can finish nonstop), complete decent pushup/pullup/situp circuits, box jump over 40″, surf, climb…I guarantee I can find someone with the same BMI that can’t even do a single pullup or pushup properly.  In fact, most people with “normal” BMIs can’t.

I think we should be measuring ourselves in terms of what we can do, not what numbers we have.  I’d like to lose weight because it will allow me to do what I love to do even better…but at the same time, I don’t feel my “overweight” BMI stops me one bit.  Holyfield’s “overweight” BMI didn’t stop him either….

 

 

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

c’mon Kat, post numbers : )

[Kattt]

@Todd,  I have a physical job so I lift things all the time. I eat….awesomely good home made food ;) . Good tips though.

@ Craig now there’s a confident man! You are clearly capable but would like to do even better. Similar for me . Except I am not that brave…

@Jerry perfect numbers…can’t you tell ? ;)

Tried chin ups…can do two. Will work on those..

[W I S N E R !]

I am who I am and I’m just trying to be honest.  I know what I need to do to get to where I want to be….but doing it is another story.  I know you work a physical job Kat and strike me as very capable.  But sometimes being capable makes it even harder to take it to that next level.  I get very lazy for this reason. As they say, “good is often the enemy of great”.  The “Meh, good enough” attitude is typically what keeps me from eating better and working harder.

I will say, in the internet age everyone is an expert on physical fitness…but I think posting photos would quickly sort out those that preach to others yet can’t follow their own advice from those that are actually living it.  I’ve got nothing to hide.

But mainly I wanted to post that photo because Holyfield vs. Wisner is the best real world example I can think of concerning what BMI variance actually looks like.

[Bruce Tolley]

As indicated above, BMI is a statistic that can be easily measured. More important, multiple scientific studies have shown that a high BMI is a reliable measurement of risk for heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes. (All three of which are epidemics in the USA.) Yes, there are multiple instances of people who are healthy with a high BMI and it does not take account of folks with very high muscle mass. But as noted above, you need to put folks in a water tank, and physically assess muscle in a clinical setting. It is a tool like any tool can be used and abused and has its limits.
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[Paul Wagner]

Yeah–I’ve always distrusted this number. I’m 5’10” and weigh between 175 and 180–exactly what I used to weigh in High School fifty years ago. My BMI says that I am overweight. I ride a road bike about 5,000 miles per year, backpack/hike another 300.

My doctor says that I am in the pink of health and in peak condition.

And my BMI says that I am quite overweight.

meh.

[Kattt]

Ok Craig….getting closer, but the shirt stays on. Best pic I can do right this second ( since my last one was from March..)  after my 2 mile run. Not flexing either ;)

And I am wearing a PINK shirt !!! a present…but it says “question authority” so it suits me regardless of color.

 

 

[W I S N E R !]

You have a reputation amongst a few people we both know as being a very strong hiker Kat.  It sounds to me like you’re in a place in which it’s not a matter of basic fitness, but rounding out weaknesses and getting better.

I gained about 15 pounds after my surgery a couple years ago, haven’t gotten it off.  Probably not pure fat gain either, also a little muscle loss.  I’m currently working on losing a net 10-15 (while gaining back muscle mass).  I’d like to believe I already have some Evander Holyfield abs lurking under my belly fat :)

 

Do the people in that pink backpacker thread know about this shirt?

 

[W I S N E R !]

On a side note, if anyone here would be interested in a sort of training thread for motivation or support….wherever you’re at or whatever your goals, I’d be interested.  Back in the day when we had a training thread going among the aspiring ultrarunners here I found it very helpful.  If at the end of a week you have people expecting you to post your miles/workouts, it definitely helped me with motivation.  I don’t really have any regular workout partners so the online community can be helpful in this regard.

[Kattt]

On your side note? Yes, I for one am interested.

 

the pink shirt…don’t go tell them.

[Bruce Tolley]

@paul Are you sure that if you stood up straight you would not be 5 11? Then the BMI calculator would say normal. :-))

This seems like a tempest in a teapot. The limits of the BMI calculation are well known and disclosed  (CDC, National Heart and Lung Institute, etc) and include both overmeasuring and undermeasuring “over-weightness”. That being said, there is strong evidence that waist size especially in men would be a better predictor of the risk of cardiovascular disease.  The problem with this approach is the error entered when taking the measurement of waist and lack of historical data on the waist sizes of populations to come up with the risk profile estimates.

[Paul S.]

It’s a terrible metric. The whole excuse of “it’s useful if it’s right; if it a wrong you’re an exception” is a garbage line of logic.  All the advice of how you feel and what you can do is a much better, but not numeric metric.

I’m “obese” according to BMI but I lift heavy weights and can do many pull ups, etc. If I was less secure I could let the BMI rating destroy my confidence and create a lot of worry and stress. Or, as mentioned, if I was “perfect” in my BMI I could have a false sense of health without any fitness to back it up.

[Kattt]

Now I wonder who is making money off this whole thing.

[Bruce Tolley]

Katharina

I am not aware of anyone making money off of it.

Frankly I am more than a little bemused that is is causing so much fuss.

Like any other estimation or measurement in the world, there are false positives and false negatives. The people who visit BPL I would hazhard are a lot more fit than the average population so it is not a surprise to me that folks have posted that “I am fit even through the BMI tells me I am overweight” so let us throw out the BMI.

If I were to go to my closest shopping mall this weekend and choose 1000 people. and measure their BMI, I am fairly confident that for 90% of those the BMI index says are overweight, they will agree that they could afford to lose some weight.  Once again, the BMI is a tool to assess risk of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure.  If you agree with the BMI that you might be overweight, go check out your cholesterol, BP, and blood sugar.

The Boy Scouts, some of Dr Ryan’s outdoor treks, and other organizations do use BMI as an analog for fitness since they cannot see that you might have the physique of Mohammed Ali in his prime..

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