Backpacking with my dog

[Jeff M.]

I have a 60 lb goldendoodle that I would like to start taking on short 2-3 day backpacking trips in the Uinta mountains in Utah.

I take him on regular trail hikes in the local mountains here but haven’t taken him backpacking yet. He does pretty well with voice commands and following on trail but I plan on keeping him on leash.

I’m mostly concerned with how to keep him warm at night. I was planning on bringing a CCF pad and letting him under the tarp/tent with me. How thick of aboad will he need? With the potential for temps to drop down to the 30s I’m wondering if some sort of sleeping bag/blanket or insulated sweater would also be appropriate. I’m not sure if he’d stay in a sleeping bag but maybe he would if it were cold enough. I’m open to any suggestions for sleeping arrangements and any other general suggestions you might have for our first trip.

[Matthew / BPL]

Nunatak makes a dog bivy that looks awesome.

I’ve been camping with my cattledog a bunch of times but I haven’t been bold enough to take her backpacking with me. She has a down coat from Nunatak which helps but she ends up getting cold sleeping on two layers of a Z-Lite pad. She doesn’t stay under a Costco down throw. Our routine now is she sleeps next to my bivy with a piece of tyvek under both of us and her pad. A couple hours after we go to sleep she starts to shiver (silently, with no complaints, always stoic) so I unzip my bivy and pull her half under my quilt with me. She really increases the warmth of my sleep system and stays right there with me. It’s cozy but not ideal and would suck if she was muddy/wet. If I ever get serious about backpacking with her I will get Jan’s bivy and spend the time at home required to really train her to stay inside of it.

[Dan]

I’ve spent hundreds of nights backpacking with a number of dogs over the years. They sleep in the tent with me. My current dog is a Boxer with a very short coat (actually bare skin on her belly). She has a fleece and a small piece of CCF. On particularly cold nights (below freezing), in addition to the fleece, I will wrap her in my down puffy. I start the zipper just a little under her belly and tie the arms loosely around her neck. Your doodle has a much thicker/warmer coat, and I suspect that a fleece would be fine in the 30s.

This summer I’m planning to take two dogs with me again for the first time in many years. The timing is good because my Boxer is 10, and I’m not going to have her carry a pack any more. My new adoptee is a 90-pound beast, and he will help me by carrying some of his older sister’s food. Unfortunately, the three of us will not fit in that Plexamid.

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[Jeff M.]

Great information. Nunatek had one of those dog bivy’s in stock in the right size so I snagged it. I think that along with a fleece jacket should cover us.

Dan, do you have a specific pack you have used that you like?

[Matthew / BPL]

Ruffwear’s approach pack works well for our dog with a liter in on each side plus a small FAK and some treats and a ball. Shes probably carrying six pounds total on her 36# frame. It actually really nice to hike with her while she’s wearing the pack, I perceive her as more serious and purposeful. She wags her tail the whole time but she acts like she has a job to do. She gets very excited to wear the pack.

[BlackHatGuy]

A bit off topic, but whatever happened to the ‘backpacking with dogs’ forum that we were told we’d most likely get when the new site came online?

[Dan]

I also like the Ruffwear pack. All our dogs have them, older, more beat-up and faded than Matthew’s though. Can be a bit challenging to get the fit right if the dog has a barrel chest, but your pup looks to have a more average build.

[BlackHatGuy]

I bought one of the Groundbird Gear harness and pack combos. Ridiculously expensive (but, then again, so is a DCF shelter) but it fits my dog perfectly (she’s a Siberian mix with a barrel chest) as each one is custom made to your dog’s specs. Cottage company.

They also make a top quilt for pups.

[Stumphges]

Ditch the leash. A gentle dog like a doodle, who is reasonably well-trained, does not need one. Leashes are a plague on both man and beast. You’ll run into the odd hiker who makes a scene, despite the fact that you’ll be in their rear view mirror in 30 seconds, and planning a trip to avoid such people is a good way to get off the beaten tracks.

I like the look of Groundbird Gear’s Turtle Top Quilt – I think the design offers the best flexibility for the dog to adjust their insulation depending on conditions – but the variation meant for shoulder seasons is gonna get soaked sooner or later. I like Nunatak’s idea of using silnylon for the dog-side fabric. That seems like the only way to make down work for a product like this. Sooner or later the dog is going to enter the tent very damp or wet, will need their blankie, and will soak the down. The other option would be to use a synthetic fill like Climashield, which in a product of this size will not result in a big weight penalty.

We use a short Prolite pad unless the ground is quite warm. R around 3; thick enough to provide some comfort, and claw-proof fabric. I really wish someone would make a dog-size pad, like 40×30 inches for a 60 pound dog. The only way to get something like that would be to cut down a double-wide pad. In summer, a dog might prefer to sleep on the ground, but I hear of people bringing thinlights for their dogs when it’s freezing at night and shake my head. A long coat might provide enough insulation from the air, but does nothing when compressed against the ground. A dog can’t fluff forest duff to make a “pad” like a wolf does, so we have to provide them.

In general, I feel that our dog does not get enough, or good enough, sleep while backpacking. Upon return home he’s more exhausted than I ever see him otherwise. The amount of hiking we do is rarely more, though, than many days when we sleep at home, so I don’t think it’s the exertion. There could be other variables – excitement, stress, cognitive energy expenditures, etc. – but I generally get the feeling that he gets sleep deprived when backpacking. So anything that improves sleep is worth considering, in my opinion.

[Matthew / BPL]

Oh yeah, Groundbird’s quilt looks good too. I forgot about that one. That might be a better option for my dog who thinks it makes sense to get on top of the insulation.

I have never personally met a more intelligent and headstrong dog than my little ACD. She’s incredibly obedient and self-controlled except when she decides she needs to take initiative and control a situation. She has good recall but such a strong need to dominate other animals. It is clear that her true nature is to control larger mammals. I’m sure she would be great at it. I feel strongly that she does need a leash and it stays coiled on her back 99.9% of the time but it’s an important option to have at hand. I have a much better (and lighter) leash now than the one in the photo.

[BlackHatGuy]

Dave at Oware sells 1/4″ and 1/2″ plastazote foam sleeping pads that work quite well as a pup pad when backpacking/camping.

[H W]

First off, don’t ditch the leash because if you’re on forest service land  it’s the law that your pup must be on a leash.

re: equipment — ruffwear offers a fold-up mattress that fits nicely inside their saddle bag pack. Nice size that is large enough for my 85lb lab.

[Dan]

First off, don’t ditch the leash because if you’re on forest service land  it’s the law that your pup must be on a leash.

This may be true in the specific forest service land that you visit, but that would be the exception rather than the rule for general forest service land. In most cases, voice and sight control is sufficient. In fact, in Colorado, fewer than half of the wilderness areas require leashes, and they are generally more strict than generic forest service land.  The busier wilderness areas do require leashes.

[Stumphges]

Matthew, yeah, I should have written “stow” rather than “ditch” the leash. I carry a length of paracord with a loop on one end and a small carabiner on the other, close at hand. Necessary at times. Ala David Thomas’ training method, we’ve taught our guy to come when he senses a person coming down the trail and I often simply leash him until that person has passed. Sometimes not, depends on situation and whether the person is an obvious dog lover. Our dog has a tendency to fall in love on first sight and try to kiss with the flying tongue technique, so that requires special care. For calmer dogs with better trail manners, leashing might not be necessary except for special situations (danger, etc.).

About that Groundbirdgear Turtle Top Quilt – I think the winter (3″ of loft) version is a good option, especially for short-haired dogs. During winter a wet dog is not as likely so having breathable fabric with down would probably work great. On the other hand, the quilt design might suffer a bit in winter conditions, as quilts do for humans – it might be too drafty. So for winter the Nunatak bed, enclosed on three sides, might be the way to go.

I think the best insulation solution for us would be a vest/jacket made with breathable fabric and climashield insulation, and that has Monolite mesh on the belly. This would stay put nicely. If cold, the dog can curl into a ball and get a good seal. If hot, the dog can lie on side or on back and dump heat through the mesh. But this would probably have to be custom made, and no-one makes such a thing.

[Jeff M.]

I like to get out where there aren’t a lot if people so he’ll hopefully have some off leash time. At home he’s pretty well behaved except when he sees another dog. He’s not aggressive at all but he always bolts to go check out the other dog. No amount of attempted training on my part has been able to fix it. He’s a bit more chill on the local trails.

I’ve been looking at the ruffwear approach pack and the front range pack (13L vs 10.5L). I like the front range a little better because it’s more of a slimmer fit but I’m not sure if it has enough capacity for 3 to 4 nights out.

The Kurgo loft jacket and Ruffwear Quinzee Jacket also look like something that would be useful. I might be able to get away with having him use that or something similar and a pad at night if it’s not going to get below freezing. I can bring the nunatek bivy when it looks like it will be colder.

 

[Dan]

The jackets you mentioned are probably good for a dog when moving around on a very cold day. For warmth when not moving, I prefer the jackets with full coverage underneath, and they typically include mini-sleeves. So for example, the Powder Hound instead of the Quinzee.

[Matthew / BPL]

A bit off topic, but whatever happened to the ‘backpacking with dogs’ forum that we were told we’d most likely get when the new site came online?

@sleeping – That’s a good question and I want to respond to it and give an update. We’ve been discussing a Backpacking with Dogs forum this week because of your question. Ryan and I are both enthusiastic dog owners and it seems likely that more than a few of our members spend time in nature with our dogs.

That said, when looking back at the past twelve months I see three threads that are specific to backpacking with dogs. We don’t feel like that is enough traffic to justify adding another forum. It is true that the existence of a Dog forum might encourage more discussion.

We have decided to take another approach. We have been talking about a Backpacking with Dogs episode of the BPL podcast. We are also thinking about featuring dogs in our emails and social media posts more frequently. Perhaps Sierra (Ryan’s dog) will make more appearance in the BPL YouTube videos.

With some luck, these initiatives will generate more active discussions about dogs. If that happens then we can start a forum dedicated to backpacking and hiking with dogs.

[BlackHatGuy]

Appreciate the reply.

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