Backpacking dogs

[Paul Wagner]

Just about everywhere that dogs are allowed in the wilderness they are required to be on a leash.  In California’s national parks, they are not allowed on trails at all–in fact, the rule in most national parks is that dogs are allowed only on paved areas–anywhere you can take your car, you can take your dog.

That doesn’t include any trails that aren’t paved.

But we’d estimate that of the fifty dogs we’ve seen in the backcountry this year, about three of them have been on leashes.  It’s the single most frequently broken regulation that we see in the wilderness.

On our last trip to Caribou Wilderness, we ran into quite a few dogs, and only one of them was on a leash.  But that dog was within a mile of the trailhead, just starting out, and we wonder how long he stayed on that leash.   We don’t say that because the owners looked untrustworthy–but the trails the Caribou Wilderness are rife with deadfall trees.  We had to climb up and over, or around more than 75 trees on our hike there.  And we can’t image what you would do with a  dog on a leash in that scenario.  Our guess is that you would get pretty darn tired of the tangles.

Of course, some dogs we’ve met are extremely well trained and behaved.  But not all are.  And we worry not only about dogs interacting with other hikers.  More of a concern is how they might interact with the local wildlife–chasing squirrels or deer, or even worse, fighting with something that might fight back.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Mine hikes off leash (where we are allowed to take her)  We dont take her if she has to be on leash.  She, like a lot of dogs, is a lot better behaved while off leash.  When on leash she is way more protective. (defensive towards other people and animals)

She was a rescue dog, and has definitely taken off after crows, and marmots and a deer. (ugh… smh)  After the deer incident she was gone for like 30 minutes but came back.  She looked scared a bit, and hasnt run off since (mostly ;) ) She saw a goat and wanted to play until she realized it wasnt a sheep dog.

But! over the last two yeas she has slept in a tent maybe 10 nights and has hiked ~150 miles and is way better behaved.  “She gets it”

But we wont take her when we arent supposed to or when it isnt a good idea.  We want to do the TRT with her but are scared of the mtn bike encounters we will have multiple times a day.   I worry about porcupines, and snakes and stuff that has defenses.  Curiosity can kill dogs too.

[Randy Nelson]

Wilderness areas are not consistent in their management and rules. Some don’t require leashes at all. And they’re not even consistent in their messaging. I was in Buffalo Peaks Wilderness a while back. I checked the website for fire restrictions and saw where it said dogs must be on leash. I got to the trail head and the sign said dogs must be on leash within 100′ of water or the trail. I actually would like that rule to be used more often.

I keep him on lead even when it’s not required if I think it’s likely we’ll encounter others. Even though he’s super friendly, there are some people who are scared of any dog. It’s really not a big deal to hike with a trained dog on a leash anyway. I clip a flexi lead to my hip belt so I can use trekking poles. So no leash getting tangled around his feet. Works great.

You are correct about people ignoring the rules. Often times my dog is the only one on a lead. My friendly, well trained dog is leashed and the out of control dogs are not. Go figure. I don’t get worked up over what other people do as long as the dogs are friendly, because I am a dog person. But I’ve had off leash dogs try to attack my dogs on 3 occasions. And have had other dogs act aggressively only to back off when I yelled at them. Why would someone with an aggressive dog walk with it off leash where it will very likely encounter another dog???

When I take my dog to the Winds, where leashes are not required, I keep him leashed on the main trails until I get up to where we go off trail or I can see a long way. If I see anyone coming, I clip the lead to his pack. Takes 2 seconds. I don’t see why so many people think it’s a burden to leash their dog.

 

 

[Greg Deitrick]

I hike with 2 dogs.  One is reliable off-leash in more situations than the other is, so sometimes they are both off leash, typically one is leashed, and sometimes both are leashed.  Letting them off leash to better manage challenging trail conditions such as creek crossings, dead-falls, etc., usually isn’t so much of a concern for me because the conditions force their attention to the trail.

Jeff’s experience is common: experienced dogs are generally well-behaved dogs.  Also they typically come with experienced owners.  And often gaining that experience results in a few less-than-ideal incidents.  I hope people with dogs regularly take them out on appropriate trails and help them learn how to behave appropriately.  I hope others extend a bit of patience to the dog and owner for the small transgressions that are inevitably part of the learning process.

[Greg Deitrick]

When I take my dog to the Winds, where leashes are not required, I keep him leashed on the main trails until I get up to where we go off trail or I can see a long way. If I see anyone coming, I clip the lead to his pack. Takes 2 seconds. I don’t see why so many people think it’s a burden to leash their dog.

You are better at this than some of us.

I find a longer leash helpful so that I’m not stepping on my dog and so I can see enough of the trail in front of me to watch where I step.  So far so good.  However, if I stop, my dog will immediately walk back and circle me, and if I stop for more than a few seconds she will circle several times.  It can be kinda funny, I imagine, watching me step out from the loops of leash around my legs about every time I start walking.  Other times I do a twirl before I step.  And then there are the times she decides to go under a dead-fall that I need to go over.  The worst is when I’ve just started down into a ravine while she is jumping across the creek; when the leash snaps tight she falls short and I get a possibly unexpected jerk down-slope.  It can help a bit when I’m climbing out of the ravine; she is more than happy to pull.  Throw in a second dog on a leash and it can get quite awkward.

While the trail is easy and there is more chance of encountering other hikers I tend to keep her on leash.  She is friendly to people but not always to dogs and bikes, and she likes to go too far ahead.  As you say, some people fear dogs, and once a guy thought she was going after him.  When I get tired towards the end of the day I’m not always as responsible as I should be.

My other dog is often off leash.  When he takes the lead he alerts me when something is up ahead and in those situations his recall is excellent if not automatic, as if it’s his job to scout the trail and report back whenever he sees something.  If anything that dog hikes too close to me.

[Randy Nelson]

I definitely unclip the lead when crossing streams or where we have to work our way around dead fall. Or in really steep terrain. And on bridges. Almost got pulled off a small one when my dog decided to pass me, bumped his pack on my knee, and fell into the stream. Luckily it was above a pool because he went in back first. Just got a good drenching,which he loves anyway.

The flexi lead eliminates all those tangles since it’s basically a spool with some tension. I highly recommend them. I use a 12 footer but you can get them as long as 20′ or 24′.

 

[David Thomas]

My dog hears, sees, and smells a lot better than I do.  So our routine (in National Forests, State Forests, and random Borough land) is to hike off leash, but I’ve trained her to come when she perceives other people/critters ahead.  Cause:

1. some people are afraid of all dogs
2. she never jumps up but still can be muddy
3. we’ve got black bears (which are no concern here) and grizzlies (which are) and porcupines (likewise).
4. I feel that this ADDS to my safety because I get alerted to bears in the area when she returns to me.  Otherwise, dogs in bear country probably decrease human safety on average.
5. I think this approach is respectful of other trail users
6. It complies with the spirit and often the letter of any regulations.

How do you train them to do that?  First have your “come” command down pat.  Then use it when coming back is easy (not some super-tempting critter or fun people to play with) and reinforce the dog’s return (praise, treat, clicker, whatever you use).  Then, on the fifth or the 32nd time, they’ll come back on their own.  Initially you won’t be sure why, because they noticed the other hikers long before you did.  Now it’s just what my dog does – she returns when there is a person or a critter ahead.  I clip a short lead on her, praise her, sometimes give a treat, and have her heel till they are past.  Or we sit by the side of the trail for a large group or bicycles or horses.  Sometimes people ask, “can I pet your dog” and she loves that, but it is THROUGH ME that it happens, not because she ran up strange people who might pet her.

Our current and previous dogs weren’t super excited about forest critters and positive reinforcement has sufficed.  For our first dog that was, I used a shock collar and set her up several times when I knew there was a moose around before she did.  Within a few months of moving to Alaska, she figured out that many moose have some weird electric defense system and didn’t chase after them anymore.  You hate shocking your dog, but it’s better than them getting stomped by a moose.

[Randy Nelson]

“then, on the fifth or the 32nd time, they’ll come back on their own.  Initially you won’t be sure why, because they noticed the other hikers long before you did.  Now it’s just what my dog does – she returns when there is a person or a critter ahead.”

We generally step off the trail and do a sit stay when people pass. So now as soon as my dog spots someone ahead he stops and looks back at me. Even if there is a lot of visibility and they are 1/4 mile away. I tell him to go and he keeps looking over his shoulder. Now? Now? Just go! :)

 

[Mark]

I have my dog off leash 99% of the time, but i don’t live or hike in the US so have no restrictions.

Because she’s walked a few times each day in areas where there are a lot of other people and dogs, she pretty much just ignores them all.

 

She’s trained to heel, sit, stay and more importantly stop.

If i she someone approaching that looks nervous i’ll give the dog the heel command and she’ll glue herself to my right leg (i’ll pass with the oncoming person to my left)

As she’s a Jack Russell it took a fair bit of training to get her not to chase wildlife, i had her 100% on her lead until i was sure i’d trained that out of her.

I find if you trail run with a dog it helps massively as they spend their energy into moving forward rather than sniffing to see what mischief they can find.

I find posts like Jeff’s extremely disturbing, if you don’t have 100% control of your dog 100% of the time off leash then you have a moral responsibility to other hikers and wildlife to keep it leashed.

Having your dog chase wildlife or run off out of sight-line is irresponsible and ignorant, it’s dangerous for the dog and wildlife, disturbing to other people and absolutely not acceptable IMO.

Quick question

If a cop (or whoever polices the trails) see a well trained dog off leash in a area where it should be leashed what would they do?

 

[Pedestrian]

“If a cop (or whoever polices the trails) see a well trained dog off leash in a area where it should be leashed what would they do?”

In the areas I hike locally, the rangers write tickets (up to $350 I believe).

Despite the many clear signs around many of the trails in the SF Bay Area there are increasing instances of dogs that are unleashed. This is a pretty serious problem on these trails as are there bikes, horses and people on foot and the trails can be pretty busy at times. It’s an accident waiting to happen when a biker coming downhill is unable to stop in time if an unleashed dog jumps into the bike’s path.

Most dog owners are very responsible and leash their dogs and clean up after their dogs. But there are increasing numbers of dog owners that let their dogs run loose. On some trails, I see little baggies of  dog poop left behind.

 

[robert k]

I’m not a dog owner , but I enjoy seeing dogs on the trail, tethered or not. I think they should have the same freedom of the outdoors that we and the rest of the animals enjoy. And as someone who has hiked Bay Area trails for over 25 years I haven’t noticed an increase in the dog population on-trail nor have I witnessed any dog related problems. Rarely do I see a horse ( I like them too ), but I have noticed an increase in bikes. From what I see owners know their dog’s behavior and leash them accordingly which is fine by me. And as far as the occasional poop bag by the trail goes I find that they usually get picked up on the way back. The ratio of poop bags to other trash ( plastic water bottles, candy wrappers, tissue, etc ) seems to be about one to a thousand. My $.02

[Pedestrian]

“I’m not a dog owner , but I enjoy seeing dogs on the trail, tethered or not.”

As someone who’s had a pet dog I have no problems with dogs. I’m not sure I “enjoy seeing dogs” but I do like dogs. Some dog owners – not so much.

“I think they should have the same freedom of the outdoors that we and the rest of the animals enjoy.”

Regardless what each one of us “thinks” or believes it’s important for us to follow rules when in a public space: when the public space (trail) requires a dog be on leash, it’s important that the dog owners must leash their dogs. If the open space use rules require that dog poop be packed out, the dog owner must do so and not leave unsightly baggies sitting by the trail. There are several areas that are open to off leash dogs that the dog owners can take their dogs to.

There are reasons why we have traffic rules: shared public spaces need agreed up on conventions that users follow or we descend to the disorganized chaos that reigns on streets in several countries that lack adequate compliance with rules or enforcement of the same rules.

In your private space (home, ranch,…) you’re welcome to practice your beliefs, but most will agree that we need some basic “rules of the road” in shared public spaces,

 

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

<table width=”294″>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=”294″>I find posts like Jeff’s extremely disturbing, if you don’t have 100% control of your dog 100% of the time off leash then you have a moral responsibility to other hikers and wildlife to keep it leashed.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

I have a moral responsibility (I suppose) to have my dog trained and adjusted enough to not be aggressive and be balanced enough to not react to other people or pets.  And to be under reasonable voice command.  She is not trained to, nor is it in her demeanor to attack stuff.

Wild animals have defenses against other predators.  The can and do take care of themselves.  MY morals end when humans and their domesticated animals are not involved.  We have it now where she doesn’t chase stuff,  It took a while because she was a stray and had to hunt/ scavange to eat.  She chased a deer, who like deer do, out ran her.  And she chased two/ four marmots, who like marmots do, jumped in the holes they were standing by.  Its almost like they have evolved to evade predators.  Also, I hike where there are cougars but I dont carry a gun so if a cougar kills my dog… then it all comes back square.

Where the trail is cliffy or crowded (if we dont leave all together! I hate crowds) we leash her, but again that’s people/ pets.

 

Finally, just the other day she wanted to chase a rabbit down the trail, but we hollered and she came right back, so, Nanny -nanny-boo-boo to you, sir.  Good Day!

 

[Greg Deitrick]

I’ve always been far more concerned about the safety of my dogs than the wildlife that they may chase.  Skilled hunters they are not, although one did eat a baby bunny it found in a nest while I was setting up camp.  They have yet to come close to catching any of the the squirrels and rats that frequent our suburban back yard.  However my hiking is typically in a National Forrest in which there is logging, controlled burns, and hunting; not exactly a pristine nor sensitive environment, which is why I like to go there with them.

[Will Elliott]

My overly terse response has been edited below:

 

 

[Will Elliott]

There are plenty of places, like the aforementioned national parks and sidewalks, where one can go to have a regulated experience. Some areas should be left less regulated. Leash laws California’s quasi-urban trails are probably a good idea, but applying them to, say, national forests as a whole isn’t necessary, nor congruent with their wilderness character.

[Author]

Posts