Where to learn self-arrest

[Kattt]

Living in central California on the coast: who do I look up or contact to learn to self arrest? The local climbing gym had no one to refer me to.
Time is running out season wise and I would really like to learn the basics before summer.
Any suggestions that are not too expensive? I understand having to travel to snow, at least, but I am not going to buy a several day package to..anything.
Anyone here willing to do a winter trip not too far and teach me? I am strong and capable, willing to pay and take responsibility for myself.

[James Couch]

Contact a local climbing guide service or the local climbing clubs. Here are a few places to start in your search:

AAC Sierra Nevada Section
shastaguides.com
swsmtns.com
mountshastaguide.com

Other than the AAC (American alpine Club) I have no affiliation with any of these groups and know nothing about them as I just pulled up the names from a quick online search.

the last link might be your best start. She appears to be an independent guide and might be most open to doing just a self arrest class.

If you can get a couple more people together you might be able to save some money by doing some kind of a group class and splitting the cost.

Best of luck.

[Billy Ray]

Seems to me it's not the right time of year to learn self-arrest. Unless you can do it after several weeks of no new snow. New snow is not what you are wanting to learn to self-arrest on…. too soft and does not present the conditions you would need/want to self-arrest on. You want to learn on firm, icy snow.

In the summer, Rainier Mountaineering used to have a really good one day self-arrest and crevasse travel/rescue course. That's a way to go, but world class glaciers on Mt. Rainier to learn on… then climb the mountain… or hike the Wonderland Trail.

Billy

[Chris S]

This place offers a one day crampon and ice axe workshop at Bear Valley Mountain Resort.

MAS Mountaineering

I haven't taken the class though, so not sure how good it is.

[Dale Wambaugh]

This club looks good:http://www.sierramountaineeringgroup.org/events

[Kattt]

Thanks everyone for the links. I will look at them a little later on today.

[David Thomas]

I know REI (at least in Seattle) offers an avalanche class. Something like 4 nights of classroom work followed by a Saturday in the Cascades digging snow pits and running search patterns with avalanche beacons. Maybe one of Bay Area or Sacramento area stores offers a similar course for basic snow-travel and self-arrest skills. If not, ask who does.

I've got plenty of ice axes and snow – you're welcome to visit and we could go slide down some slopes, then STOP sliding down the slopes. It's only 3 plane flights to get here (Kenai, Alaska).

Rainier Mountaineering has a very long-established, well-run, one-day snow travel class that is offered well into the Summer. Although the later you take the course, the further you'll have to hike up to the lowest snow field. So if any of your travel would take you to WA.

I concur with the other response that you want Spring, rather than Winter snow conditions. If you can't find snow or a slope on which you build up some speed, you won't really develop your skills. Even in Summer, if you can find a snowfield at 9,000-11,000 feet – that can work, but the sun cups can be a problem and the bottom edge of many Summer snow fields ends with a 4-foot drop onto talus boulders. You really want a gradual run-out onto flatter snow below your practice area. In my town, I'd just go to the scariest sledding hill around.

Edited to add: if a slope doesn't give you a good slide, you can develop it into a luge run by sliding down repeatedly. I'd throw a snow sled in the car just in case I needed to pack a run down a lot.

Note that you should bring different outer pants and jacket combination. Coarsely woven fabrics like Codura slides MUCH less and on an icy morning might be the thing to wear. But later in the day or on a shallower slope, you need to be wearing a slicker nylon to get a decent slide and some speed from which to self-arrest. I've never tried it for sliding in clothes, but silicone spray works on skis and sleds for a couple of runs and, sprayed onto your snow/rain pants, might give you a better slide, if needed.

[Dave @ Oware]

Based on the drought, now IS a good time. Check also UC Davis mountaineering ( outdoor adventures) club. They may have a trip to Lassen or Shasta this spring.

[James holden]

if u have time … a respectable alpine club

if u have some moolah … and accredited AMGA/ACMG mountain guide

if u have neither … make friends with some folks

if all those friends are too busy suntanning and sipping lattes, and intrawebbing on BPL … well theres always youtube vids

;)

[Bob Gross]

Many years ago, I used to lead an annual Mount Shasta climb (or ski or snowshoe). We would spend the first day getting up to high camp at Helen Lake on the normal route. Once tents were up, we had our ice axe class since some of the members were very new. First, we explained what we were trying to do, and that looked mostly like Freedom of the Hills illustrations. Then, one of us (typically me) would walk up the steep slope above camp. We were looking for a slope steep enough that we could slide or fall rapidly, but it had to run out smoothly. That way, even if a beginner completely fouled up, they would just slide safely to a halt below. There were no rocks or other obstructions. Once the demonstrator was high enough, there would be some signaling so that the beginners were all watching. The demonstrator would initiate a fall typically by doing a back-flip. I kid you not.

If the snow was soft, the demonstrator would just sink into the snow and stop without sliding. If the snow was icy, you could just slide forever. So, for training purposes we looked for some intermediate snow that was just right. Once all of the beginners had watched the demonstration, they were invited to walk up the same slope and try it for themselves. Everybody did. They were told that if they did not feel comfortable with their ice axe, that they should stay back in camp and not go to the summit for the next morning. Self-selection occurred, and 5%-10% would stay back. We never had any reportable injuries in 22 years of that. In today's litigious society, we would probably have to have several layers of signed liability waivers.

–B.G.–

[Bob Gross]

"if u have some moolah"

Eric, does that mean maple dollahs or does that mean yankee dollars? Or, does it matter?

I once watched a mountaineering guide trying to teach some beginners, and it was pitiful to watch. The clumsy beginners had no business being up there as high as they were, and the guide was doing his best to supply the training. I'm afraid that the beginners did not get much for their money.

–B.G.–

[Kattt]

Yeah, those are limitations.
It would be nice to get a few people together and get some help.

[Greg Mihalik]

To clarify –

You say "self-arrest", but do you also mean –

Harness
Knots
Crampon Technique
"Buddy-on-the-Rope"

… or just you, in trail runners (Khatoola microspikes?), with an ax on a slope?

[Kattt]

Greg,
I climbed at an indoor gym for two years , as far as knots. I am looking to learn to self arrest on ice because I am meeting up with my cousin who has done this all her life and we are spending a week together in the alps. She recommended I learn self arrest if possible.
I am not asking for the go ahead to do something stupid.

[Greg Mihalik]

Apologies if my post was misconstrued….
… just didn't know the extent of your pursuit.

I've done full-on alpine climbs.
I've done trail runners and an ax.

"Ice" versus hard-pack snow is a significant delineator.

Knowing what your goal is, and what you Don't want, will help finding the right instruction.

[Bob Gross]

Crampons, knots, and a harness have very little to do with self-arrest technique. Maybe they are all covered in the same training class.

Self-arrest generally refers to a glissade, and then a stop. It might start from a fall, and then you hope you can stop.

We used to practice glissade technique on descents, simply because it required less effort than walking down. But then we had to be prepared to slow down or stop using the ice axe.

–B.G.–

[James holden]

kath …

contrary to bobs guide story …

i suggest talking to a a guiding company and hiring a guide for a day … itll cost you a few hundred … but youll get personalized instruction … tell them you goals for your trip, and theyll teach taylor the lesson for it

a good thing to ask is about the guides experience … if you are hiring a guide privately you dont want someone fresh out from their certification … you want someone whos been around the block a few times

the thing about hiring a professional to show you is not so much to learn the basics, as that you can pic of anywhere … but all the little tricks and tips you only accumulate by doing it every day for the last few decades

for a full day you might as well get them to show you basic snow and ice travel techniques, and basic mountain ropework since you climb in a gym anyways

the alternative is to wait for climbing club to go on a practice trip … which works generally if you can wait … of course the "knowledge" of folks in some clubs can be extremely variable from very good to downright unsafe … with a professional they generally teach to a certain standard

and the most important thing is to practice … a guide should be able to give you good places where you can practice self arrest and other snow techniques fairly safely in the area

nobody likes paying for instruction … not when they think they can learn it off a few buddies or da intraweb …

but knowledge and skill is much more important than any gear that many here dont bat an eye on dropping $$$$ for a few oz savings

ask yourself this … would you learn a lifesaving/dependant skill like first aid, skydiving, etc … off anyone but a professional, or at minimum someone you trust to have be highly proficient and practiced in it?

;)

[BlackHatGuy]

This is a good video to get an idea of what you want to learn and practice.

http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2014/06/self-arrest-techniques.html

[BlackHatGuy]

The last link that James provided, from her website:

Topics include: Walking with the axe, ice axe self-belay, ice axe self-arrest (from all positions), crampons boot fit and adjustment, walking in crampons, flat-footing, French technique, German technique, using the front points, and glissading. This clinic is designed to give you practical instruction in the use of crampons and ice axe skills which may be used while climbing Mt. Shasta and is not a substitute for basis mountain sense and judgment while climbing Mt. Shasta.

Duration: 1 day
Departure City: Mt. Shasta, CA.
Experience Level:No Previous experience needed. Moderate exercise, good physical condition required.
Cost: I will be offering 2 free clinics in the spring and early summer season. Dates will be posted closer to the dates.

I'd suggest giving her a call instead of waiting for her to post the dates.

[Katherine .]

You might also want to memorize the Miranda Warning. But given the right to remain silent, I guess you don't have to recite it aloud during a self-arrest.

(Sorry. I need to get out!)

[Kattt]

Katherine :)

Thanks everyone for the info and links.
Doug, that sounds perfect,thank you.
Eric, I get what you are saying and mostly agree.
Bob, thanks and for the pm as well
Greg watch out! I have tackled KGB agents and they are no longer around to tell their side of the story.

[Bob Gross]

That video is good except for one contradiction. There is always a debate about whether you should use the wrist strap on your ice axe. If you don't wear it, the ice axe can be ripped out of your hands or just dropped and lost. If you do wear the strap, then you won't lose the axe, but it might also fly around and strike you in the head. Either is bad.

Personally, I always took the approach that I would rather keep the strap attached, and I will take my chances with a puncture from the pick. If I detach the strap, then I figure I will lose the axe entirely, and then I'm doomed to a bad fall.

You can take either side of that argument. Generally the self-arrest instructor will mention both sides so that you can make up your own mind.

–B.G.–

[Bob Gross]

"Cost: I will be offering 2 free clinics"

Such a deal! How can you refuse?

–B.G.–

[Jerry Adams]

google youtube videos that show how to do it

read books, like Freedom of the Hills

Go to a snowy place, find a steep slope with good run-out in case you don't stop. Start sliding and then stop with ice axe. As you figure it out, get more agressive with the starting of sliding – go head first, sideways,…

Better to go with someone that's done it.

Yeah, better to take some class or whatever, but it isn't really that difficult

If you're going to do serious mountaineering, then you want to do more extensive training with more experienced people. If you're doing easy stuff, maybe it's not that important.

[Dave @ Oware]

When arresting, to quote " "Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never"

Even if you don't stop a fall you may keep your head uphill, slow, and whatever you hit will be feet first.

[Author]

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