Newbie Help/Input

[Jamie Paquin]

Hi- I'm planning on taking my 5 1/2 year old daughter on a 9 day, 47 mile backpacking trip. I'm slowly assembling gear and would love suggestions/ input. We will average 5 miles a day so there will be a lot of time hanging out in camp. The only thing my daughter will carry is a 1.5 liter skeeter camelback hydration pack. I'll be carrying everything else. Your advice/input greatly appreciated. We are very experienced car campers/Baja desert campers but new to extended backpacking. Thanks in advance. Here's my list of gear so far. Haven't included toiletries, iPhone, fire starter, etc. but feel free to advise on those items as well.

BACKPACKING GEAR LIST

Packing & Camping

1. Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2, $232 2lb3oz
2. Exped Lightning 45, $130 2lb3oz
3. Enlightened Equipment Revelation 30 X Wide, $260 1lb3oz
4. ThermaRest NeoAir XLite (S), $90 8oz
5. ThermaRest NeoAir XLite (R), $130 12oz

TOTALS: 6lb13oz

Cooking & Drinking

6. MSR Pocket Rocket Stove, $40 3oz
7. Fuel Canister, 8oz
8. Sawyer Mini Water Filter, $25 3oz
9. Snow Peak Titanium Cookset, $53 6.4oz
10. Granite Gear Food Sack, $20 2.4oz
11. (2)Light my Fire Spork 1oz

TOTALS: 1lb8oz

Clothing Packed

12. Kenyon Polarskins Top – Mid, Long Sleeve 4oz
12 Champion C9 Base Layer Pant. 4.5oz
14. Watson’s Brushed Microfiber Base Layer Bottoms (LILY). 4.5oz
15. Kenyon Polarskins Top – Mid, Long Sleeve (LILY). 4oz
16. Marmot Sol Down Jacket – 600 Fill Power (LILY). 10oz
17. Marmot Pre Cip Rain Jacket(LILY). 4oz

TOTALS: 1lb15oz
MISC ITEMS

10. Kelty Camp Chair, $25 – 1lb?(Maybe)
11. Black Diamond Ultra Distance Trekking Poles, 10.2oz

[Jamie Paquin]

Also, I'm undecided on what type of hydration bladders to carry. Will need to carry water for the first 20 miles. After there will be water every 6 miles or so.

[Lori P]

So you are assembling gear but you are planning a nine day trip.

first thing should be a two day/one night trip, and that after you have tried every piece of gear out in the back yard.

[Jamie Paquin]

Yes we are definitely going to try our gear out on a quick overnight or two. I was seeking advice/input on gear choices, etc.

[Andy F]

In my experience, kids often don't let go of trekking poles when they fall. That can result in more serious injuries because they aren't able to break the fall with their hands and arms.

I've done several 3 day trips with my kids, both younger and older than yours. Looks like a good start on the gear list.

Hope you and your daughter have fun!

[David Thomas]

Jamie,

Most of the gear looks good. To comment more, I'd want to know the location and date of the proposed trip. 5 miles a day is a reasonable goal. Realize that you two will be together A LOT more than when you're around the house. I can do that with my son, for a week at time – being within 5 feet of each other continuously – but consider how you might have a little "down time" where you each just read a book, play with stick and rocks in the creek, or stare at the clouds.

Speaking of which, I didn't see any games or books. If I'm doing 35 miles in a day, I just sleep, hike, cook, eat and repeat. But you'll only hike for 3-4 hours/day. Print out some "matchstick games" or mancala rules – you can play those in the sand with sticks and gravel (which will make it more special than the plastic version from Walmart). "Spot It" is a new and very good game – very age-independent. A mini deck of standard playing cards can do a lot. Heck, splurge on the grams and bring a full-sized deck.

5 years old is tough for books because she probably doesn't read dense "chapter books" on her own yet. But you can read her any number of classics – Charlotte's Web, The Wind in the Willows, The Phantom Tollbooth, Matilda, The House at Pooh Corner – for an hour or two each night. Maybe that's an ebook with some recharging capacity or maybe they are paperbacks.

And, even though they are not functional, a favorite kid's book and a stuffed animal that she picked out are required at that age, IME.

Our strategy has been to keep it fun as we introduced our kids (now 10 and 14) to hiking, backpacking and snow camping. That meant fewer miles, more mac&cheese (and frozen pizza in winter), games, and activities. Letting her build a fire, help cook dinner, and set up the tarp will, yes, take more time and make more of a mess, but it will make it a better trip for all. Now our 10-year-old backpacks 10 miles a day, our 14-year-old hauls more weight than his parents, and they look forward to trips – especially when we let them each bring a friend.

Edited to add: one fuel canister seems highly optimistic for 2 people x 9 days when it isn't a hard-core trip. More hot chocolate, chamomile tea with honey, etc go a long way on dark evening or a brisk morning. Also, a single canister, forgotten during a distraction, can burn down to no fuel and no hot food for the rest of the trip.

[Jamie Paquin]

David& Andy- thank you so much for your thoughtful input.

Andy- the trekking poles were for me but since we are doing such low miles I'm thinking of not taking them.

David – love the ideas about the games in the sand with sticks and card games. I'll check out the spot game too. Great ideas. Also I'm going to add another fuel canister to the mix. We are planning early April on the pct from Campo to Laguna Campground – 47 miles. I love your comment about all the time together although I'm a stay at home mom so we are together a lot as it is. We did take a three week cross country car camping trip when she was 3 yrs old and were together 24/7 driving from california to virginia to upstate new York and back to california. Any advice on hydration systems? I am thinking of carrying 10 liters and Lily will carry 1.5 liters. Water should only be an issue for the first 20 miles until we hit lake morena. Thoughts?

[Adam G]

Why not start at Lake Morena and climb up to Mt. Laguna? Once you get up to Mt. Laguna, you can explore the beautiful area up there such as the lakes or head into Noble Canyon, which has several backcountry sites in a forested area along a river. Then you can avoid the 15 mile waterless stretch and avoid carrying 22 lbs of water.

[Mitchell Ebbott]

At five miles per day, 20 miles waterless is a lot. 4 liters per person per day is a good number to plan on, though maybe your daughter will only need 2. That's 53 pounds of water!!! You might drink less if you're not exerting yourself all day, but the water needed to cook food will make up for that.

Maybe pick a route with water the whole way?

[IVO K]

In addition to the good advice already posted, I have this:

I see no clothing for the kid.
Nor cups, mugs, bowls.
Nor a quilt/sleeping bag for her.
Nor a light and spare batteries.
Consider a fall-back water treatment as well, in case the Sawyer Mini fails you.

[Jamie Paquin]

Thanks guys. Your input is extremely helpful.

Adam – you make a good point. I'm going to look into that route from Lake Morena going north. The waterless stretch has always been an issue. I have this idea that my daughter and I will do a portion of the trail each year until we finish. It seemed logical that we would start at the beginning but I'm keeping myself adaptable to whatever makes the most sense.

Mitchell- I agree with the water concerns. We could easily pick another section of the trail that isn't so water challenged. I definitely don't want to carry 53lbs of water!

Ivo – any clothes that say (Lily) are for my daughter. Clothing list is not complete as my outerwear isn't listed or socks etc. I was thinking Lily and I would share the quilt. We normally sleep with a comforter on car camping trips. Have only been cold a couple times in the early morning hours at joshua tree. We are going to give this quilt system a test run before taking it out on the trail of course. I was thinking I only need a 1 cup for coffee and 1 bowl for a Lily to eat out of. Any suggestions? Also suggestions on water bladders? Or just stick with water bottles?

[Andy F]

Water bladders are very dependent on personal preference. If money and time aren't an issue, get one for each of you and try them out. Be sure to try them on at least an overnight trip where you're getting water from a natural source because filling them during a trip tends to be the hassle. It's so much easier from a faucet that it can be deceptive. But, that depends on the brand too. I have a Camelback which I don't like dealing with and rarely use, but a Platypus hoser can be treated similar to any other bottle. I usually just use Gatorade or Smartwater bottles.

You might want to go with a full size Sawyer Squeeze and bring the cleaning syringe, along with a backup method like chlorine dioxide-based purification tablets. Some have reported issues with flow rates on the Sawyer mini. I find a Steripen Adventurer Opti to be the most hassle-free method (UV purifier), although I also use the Sawyer Squeeze sometimes.

[Sumi Wada]

So… have you done the simple math? You have around 10lb on your list now, but you're missing some things like first aid, toiletries, camera, knife, headlamps, map, games, etc., and your clothing list looks like about half of what you'll actually need. You may also consider things like pillows or towels. I think your base weight will be at 15-16 lb when all is said and done.

9 days worth of food for the both of you, plus miscellaneous stuff like toilet paper, will add 15-17lb, possibly more depending on how much food your daughter eats.

10 litres of water will add 22lb.

You're around 55lb already, and I seriously doubt it will all fit in a 45L pack.

I don't think your gearlist is the issue; it's your itinerary. 20 miles with no water when you're only planning 5 miles a day, is unrealistic, IMO. I've been camping and backpacking with my son (just the two of us) since he was young and my recommendation is to pick an itinerary with water access at least once a day, if not at every camp. I think it just makes for a much more enjoyable hike for everyone.

[Jamie Paquin]

Hi Sumi – you and the others are right about the waterless stretch part. I'm already nixing that stretch until my daughter is old enough to do more miles comfortably. I really appreciate all this feedback. It has been more than helpful. My new itinerary has water about every 6 miles. Starts at a regular campground and ends at a regular campground. I will only need to carry 4 days of food and then will have a box for the next 4 days waiting plus 2 days eating at the campground. Much better plan. I'll probably carry extra food just to be safe but not 9 days worth. You're right Sumi about all that fitting into the 45L pack. The pack is rated up to 53lbs but I don't want to carry anywhere near that much! Adjusting the itinerary is the solution. As my daughter gets older she'll be able to carry more things. Thanks for the great advice.

[r m]

I don't know anything about kids, but audiobooks keep me entertained in tents without adding any weight. As the screen isn't on the phone battery isn't drained as fast as in normal use.

[David Thomas]

I missed the 10 liters of water. Glad Sumi caught it. While keeping the weight off your daughter's back is the highest priority, keeping your load reasonable is necessary, too.

>"I'll probably carry extra food just to be safe"

Based on our experience, I'd add extra calories as snacks, rather than "second dinner" or some such. Because sometimes a granola bar or "power pills" (M&Ms / skittles) are helpful between camps, during the hike. And snacks are always no-cook so they are back-up in case of stove/fuel issues. We've had good luck engaging our kids during the shopping trip: "You get to pick out 2 healthy snacks for each day and one sweet treat for each day." ("healthy" being pretty broad so as to include granola bars, power bars, beef jerky, fruit leather, etc). And encourage her to experiment, to try different brands / flavors (you'll end up eating the ones she doesn't like). And sometimes they have great ideas. Our kids saw chicken noodle soup packets in a NZ store and wanted to bring them along. Sure, light weight, why not? They were wonderful to have in the shelter on the pass after hiking in the wind and rain.

Last month on two backpacking trips in New Zealand, we let them mix their own gorp from bulk food buys and manage their own healthy / sweet snacks on the trail. To a kid, they saved the goodies each day and therefore had less sweets throughout the trip than if we'd been dispensing the snacks.

We haven't had a problem with our kids, but with the other family's youngest kid last month and I can remember on Scout trips, some kids don't pee or poop enough. Not peeing means they aren't drinking enough and you need to get on top of that right away! Not pooping is harder (literally). No proper toilet, strange diet and feeling self-conscious about using a cat hole all contribute. Part of it can be addressed with "Mommy is having two prunes each morning and each evening and you are too!". Part of it should be addressed on those shorter trips you do beforehand – dig the hole, do your business, cover it up. Like it's not a big deal and just another skill to learn and be good at like starting a fire or protecting yourself from the sun and bugs.

[Sumi Wada]

Jamie, I think your revisions are smart.

Here's the thing I had to remind myself when my son was younger (he's now 16.) If you're the only adult hiking with a child, you need to think through the scenerio of what would happen if you're hurt/incapacitated on the trail. What will your daughter be able to do? And will her life depend on it? We all take calculated risks with our own lives but, in this case, you'll be making them for both of you.

[Jamie Paquin]

Thanks to everyone who offered advice to me regarding this trip. Based on your advice I switched up my itinerary, eliminated any waterless stretches and the trip was a success. Since we all often post advice and never know what happens, I wanted to share a video of the trip I was asking advice about. Thanks again and happy trails! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UCDv2HmOkS8

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