PATAGONIA: TORRES DEL PAINE Q Circuit Trip Report

[John Ludz]

First time poster, mid-term lurker. In preparation for a trip to Torres del Paine Patagonia in November/December of 2014, I decided I wanted to lighten my load, and began reading some of the forums on BPL for advice and tips. In order to repay the favor, I want to post my trip report on the Patagonia Q Circuit, and be available to answer any questions. Hopefully, soon I will move up to a Lifetime Membership. Apologies for not having all of my photos in the post. They are too large, but I will try to post them later.

Dates: 11/21 – 12/9 including transit and a couple of mellow days in Santiago and Puerto Natales.

Route: Patagonia Q Circuit– CONAF Admistration starting point. 9 days due to weather delay. Used BOOK: TORRES DEL PAINE by Rudolf Abraham (very good)

Gear List below.

Packs:
Osprey Aether 70L Backpack
Stuff sack day pack (use when hiking Valle Frances and Torres)

Sleeping:
Enlightened Equipment Quilt (30 degree)
Neo Air Trekker Mattress
MSR Hubba Hubba NX Tent (terrible)
MSR Hubba Hubba Footprint (good to alleviate mud/water during rain)

Clothing:
1 x base layer t-shirt
1 x wool long sleeve (camp only)
1 x long wool blend
1 x shorts (camp only)
1 x trek pants
3 x Socks and 3 x liners
3 x Ex Officio Underwear

Outerwear:
Uniqlo Down Vest
Uniqlo Down Jacket
Marmot Pre Cip Rain Paints
Mountain Hardwear Drystein Rain Jacket (terrible)
Patagonia Houdini Wind Shirt (best item I brought)

Cooking:
2 Q Open Country Pot
Pocket Rocket Stove
Ratsack Metal Rodent Bag (unnecessary)
Emergency Fire Starter
Lighter
Energy Bars
Pasta/Oats/Soup (bought in Puerto Natales)

Extra:
3 x dry bags (must have)
Knife (small lightweight)
Rope (necessary for additional tent tie downs when windy or on platforms)
Compass (unnecessary)
Trowel (unnecessary)
Tent Repair Kit (best decision)
Camera
External USB Battery
Phone
Contacts
Toothbrush
Ear Plugs (great when windy)
Asolo Boots
Sandals (camp)

Trip Details:

I had been eyeing Patagonia for a while, looking for a remote backcountry experience with just enough civilization to keep the girlfriend happy. Overall, the trip planning is quite easy, and can be done on short notice if needed. Much of the necessary items can be purchased in town, including gear, food, stove fuel, etc. A fair number of people who do the trek appear to have either never camped before, or else have extremely limited experience.

We live in California, and flew from LAX to Santiago via Atlanta. Upon arriving in Santiago, we took an immediate flight to Punta Arenas, and then caught a bus to Puerto Natales. Use Buses Fernandez, as they are the most established. The bus stops at the airport, and if you go during low or shoulder season you should grab it there. During high season, get a jump on the crowds by taking a taxi into town, having them drop you at the bus station. The bus heads to the airport after the station, and then onto PN. Bus fare is 12000 CLP each. Taxi to town should cost 8000 CLP. Do a pre-negotiated rate as the taxi fare is roughly 11.5k on the meter.

Upon arriving in Puerto Natales, head to your hostel or hotel. I would 100% book in advance. The lady and I stayed at Pire Mapu Cottage, which was very, very nice. Cheap, with a cool vibe, few guests (3 rooms?) and free breakfast. They even make homemade jam, which I destroyed.

Do not plan your hike for the same day or maybe even the following day depending on arrival if you can help it. Spend a day buying supplies, and adjusting to the time change. There are plenty of markets in town, and plenty of gear shops. Our free day was Sunday, which is not ideal as many shops are closed. If buying canister fuel, SHAKE THE CANISTER. We had a guy in a legit looking shop try to sell us half filled canisters thinking we were newbie tourists. Canister stove price is 2500 for a small.

There are a lot of restaurants. We enjoyed the place with a big bear outside which had fresh, cheap salmon, and another shop called Angelicas which sells the best butter/jam cookie I have ever had.

On this day, schedule your bus ride into Torres Del Paine for the following day. Our B&B did this for us. Cost is 15000 CLP round trip. Also, if you would like, there is a daily meeting at Erratic Rock in which they give an overview of the W and Full Circuits. If you pre-planned, this is a waste, and is filled with a bunch of kids. I wanted to walk out, but my GF wanted to stay. Some of the questions were quite funny, and you end up seeing many of these people on the trail at some point.

Regarding the bus, there are two bus departures, morning and afternoon. Start in the AM for the Q circuit, otherwise you may not make it to camp 1.

Day 1: 17.5km

Hop on the bus at 7:30AM and head into the park. I was shocked at how many buses there were. The were a few hundred people heading in at the same time as us.

The ride is nice, with beautiful views, although the bus gets very dusty from the gravel road. The interior feels like a coal mine. The bus stops at a little shop halfway through, and waits for 20 minutes while people buy food and use the toilet. You must stop at the Guard Station, pay your fee of 18000 CLP, sign paperwork, and watch a fire safety video. They will hand you a check-in type form, saying you need to be stamped at each camp, but we literally had no one ask us for, or mention this form. Toss it or keep as a souvenir. They also give you a map. I was expecting a full blown map with topo, etc. but it honestly looks like a Disneyland map. There are routes, and the campsites, but with nothing else except estimated times for each section. If you are reasonably fit, you will beat these times. My GF and I would shave off approximately 10-15 minutes for each hour listed (45 minutes for an hour route, etc.) This was with stopping to pee, drink…

Regarding the map, it is fine as it is virtually impossible to get lost. I have never seen a more well marked park in my entire life. Most of the time, you can see a trail marker while standing at a trail marker.

If doing the W via the hotel, take a shuttle from the Guard station. If heading to the catamaran of the CONAF, get back on your bus. From here, the bus heads to the catamaran stop where you can take the boat to Paine Grande for 15000 CLP. From Grande, you can start the ) circuit, or the modified W. We opted to continue on, and got off at the final stop, which was CONAF. Note this bus ride is quite long… we left the bus station at 730, and did not get off at CONAF until around noon. I wanted to karate kick the seat in front of me during the last portion.

Get out at Conaf, and sign in. At each stop, you have to sign a registry, even if you do not actually camp there. This is so they can track your last stop should you get lost. After signing in, ensure your bottles are full, use the toilet, and walk out of the CONAF heading to your LEFT. Take the road about 200 yards, and dip off onto the trail on the right at the sign. Do not go to the trail straight out of the CONAF… this is the wrong way. Do not ask me how we found this out.

Walk for 5-6 hours from CONAF to Paine Grande along mostly flat land. The scenery is beautiful, and this is the path that gives you a chance to take the iconic mountain range shot. No other route will let you catch everything in one frame.

On our first two days, we had ridiculously strong wind. So strong, that they shut down the catamaran, and the locals even were talking about how strong it was. I hike above 10k feet quite often, and camp there as well with 50+ winds, but this was relentless. I heard only wind in my ears the first two days, and my GF (100 lb) was getting blown all over. Pretty fun. Check out the lamas and the horses on the way. Stop for water at the mid point camp on the way.

After mostly flat area, the trail goes up a small mountain/hill and drops down into Paine Grande. Grande is massive, with lodging for a lot of day trippers as well as hikers. You can camp in the grass, take hot showers in the bathrooms, and use the dining hall area to cook. We arrived late due to the late start, and it was packed. Only 3 other people left from CONAF, which meant everyone else was already there. If you can, camp at the VERY back of the camping area off to the right near the base of the hill. We were stuck out in the open, with the crazy winds, and I spent the night getting hit in the face by the collapsing poles. The Hubba Hubba NX, which had been fine until then, was worthless in the winds. We guyed the hell out of it, and pitched it perfect, but by morning it was all bent up. Another Hubba Hubba next to us had a torn fly. The rental tents were mostly OK as they are heavy duty 4 season tents weighing 12 pounds (Doite brand), but those that were improperly set-up were getting blown down the grassy area. On any normal day, it would have been fine.

Grande costs 5200 CLP to camp.

Day 2: Grande to Cuernos. 7.5km to camp Italiano. 13km Frances return. 5.5km to Cuernos.

Head from Paine Grande to Italiano. Easy walk, and Italiano is a great free camp amongst the trees. Set-up camp, and take a day trip of into Valle Frances. It is a great idea to leave camp early each day, allowing you to get the best campsites along the way. We left around 8 AM each day, and had the jump on most people. The toilets in Italiano are the worst in the whole park. If you bring your girl, set-up the tent before you allow her to use them and she refuses to stay. If you want to head on to Cuernos like we did (long long day), drop your gear and day hike anyway up to Frances.

Having done this trek, I recommend staying at Italiano. If you want to go on, walk another 2.5 hours to Cuernos. You walk alongside Lago Nordenskjold, which is gorgeous. It was so windy while we were there that you could see walls of mist blowing down the lake each time the gusts would come. People were getting knocked to the ground and the walls of water would smash you in the face.

Cuernos has wooden platforms to camp on, which look great at first, but then you realize its a pita to set-up, and when the wind hits, it blows under the tent and makes the tent behave like a lung. Our fly tore in the middle of the night. I woke up to cold wind blowing in, grabbed my tent tape, and taped as much as I could. The tear was 24in long, and the tape was 12in… I taped the underside, grabbed the two remaining ends of the torn pieces, and tied them together. Next, I tied rope around the ends to hold them together and to give a guy out point. Somehow, it survived the rest of the trip with 3 days of rain. My GF slept the whole time… she has a gift.

Cuernos is expensive. 75000 CLP per person camping. Rather than sit in the dining area all night, walk down behind the lodge to the lake side. No one else will be there and it's quite relaxing.

Day 3: Cuernos to Torres via shortcut. Roughly 15km.

Great hike. Head from Cuernos towards Hotel Las Torres. At the intersection, head left towards Camp Chileno. This route takes you up onto a hillside overlooking the entire area with great views. Stop here for water or a lunch/snack then head on to Chileno. On the way to Chileno, you ascend a steep hill, and then walk a slightly narrower path on a hillside. Given the hotel is nearby, there are a ton of day hikers. It is actually quite comical seeing dirty, ragged trekkers with full packs, and those dressed for a Ralph Lauren Outdoor Mag with English Style hunting clothes and guides.

Pass Chileno, walk a bit more, cross the river via the bridge, and ascend to Torres. 1.5 hours from Chileno to Torres. Camp Torres is great, and similar to Italiano. Nestled in the trees and free. Set up camp, be wary of the mosquitoes, and cook in the shelter. Sleep early if you are doing to dawn hike up to the Torres.

Day 4: Torres dawn hike and then to Refugio Las Torres. 7km.

Wake up early, giving yourself 45-60 minutes to hit the Torres before sunrise. Time varies based on season, but we left around 4:45, and had PLENTY of time. Bring warm clothes, and breakfast. It gets cold. While walking up, you will see a sign near the top saying "DO NOT CROSS." If you want a scenic, private view, climb over this sign and head up the side of the mountain. I like being alone, so waited until no one was around, turned off the head lamp, and snuck up with the GF. When it got brighter, everyone looked up with jealousy. The other option is to follow the route the rest of the way to the lake below the Torres, but you will be with 50 other people. We did this later.

On our hike, it was cloudy, so we missed the vivid colors, but it was still nice.

Head back to camp, grab your gear, and go to Refugio Torres. Easy day. We were going to head to the next camp, Seron, which is an easy walk, but I hit the wall. No sleep on red eye flight. No sleep first night from jet lag. No sleep second night from wind. No sleep third night from wind/fly. Little sleep fourth because of dawn hike… I needed to sleep and eat! The camp ground was very quiet, and a nice grassy open area. Warm showers, and toilets.

Refugio Torres costs 7500 CLP.

Day 5: Refugio Torres to Seron 9km.

Easy hike to Seron, and the start of the backside of the circuit. The backside is MUCH, MUCH better than the W. Significantly less people, much more mellow campsites, and the people who are on the trail are true trekkers vs young, noisy, backpackers. Seron looks like a mini farm, and is very pleasant. Walk around a bit, and relax.

Seron costs 7500 CLP.

Day 6: Seron to Dickson 18.5km.

Pretty hike with strong wind. Go up a steep ascent, cross the "wall of wind," hike a bit more, ascend up a hill, and then down into camp. You can see the camp as you are nearing, and it is a great view, nestled on a small peninsula amongst the water. Camp off to the right, nestled in the trees to avoid the wind. Mosquitoes bite here.

The guys at this camp were hilarious. We had breakfast here, with homemade bread, eggs, jam, etc. 6500 CLP per person, and a good deal. If you ever buy a meal, buy breakfast. It's the cheapest, best value, and most delicious. Dinner is banquet style, not as good, and more expensive.

Dickson costs 4300 CLP.

Day 7: Dickson to Los Perros. 9km.

Easy hike through the woods to Los Perros. Rained all day for us, which was fine. Set up anywhere flat and with drainage, dry your gear in the dining area, and rest up for the pass the following day. We hung our stuff all over, as did everyone else, and no one cared.

Perros cost 4300 CLP.

Day 8: Los Perros to Paso.

The night before Day 8, we checked with the guards to see if the weather was OK to cross. They said yes, but they were mistaken. The next day, we left at 6AM to cross the pass before the winds really picked up (stronger 11AM and on). A solo German hiker joined us for safety. The week prior to our trip, a group of Aussie hikers found a frozen body going over the pass from the previous year. A hiker left during a storm, became lost, and froze. Dogs, people, and search teams could not find him.

After leaving camp, you ascend through trees, and eventually come out of the tree line. The ground out of the tree line is a combination of rock and snow, and is fairly steep. It was raining that day, and once we exited the tree line, the wind was horrendous.

We began climbing towards the pass, following the trail markers, and spent the next 1.5 hours getting hit with horizontal rain and 60+ winds. My GF was thrown to the ground a handful of times, and at one point, after being thrown onto the rocks, broke down thinking she was going to die. Both her and the German were moving slow, so I went a bit faster to set the pace, but eventually had to head back a bit to get behind my girl and literally push her against the wind so she could walk. As we got closer to the top, winds were even stronger, and coming in gusts. You had to kneel down and grab the rocks when the wind hit, weight for the gust to stop, and then scramble a few yards until the next one hit. It sounded like a jet fighter coming over the top. Note, that the lady is actually quite tough.

At one point, the markers send you into an exposed, snow covered area. We opted out of this, and began climbing straight up the rock area, but the German wanted to follow the rules, and tried to go across the exposed snow. He was hammered by the wind, knocked down, and slid for a bit. I went down to grab him, and he came up the rock with us. Moral here… do not obey the route if you think it's a bad idea.

As you reach the pass, the wind screams over the top. By that point, my shittie jacket had wetted out, and was leaking. Note to self… Mountain Hardwear has turned to garbage since Columbia bought them.

My pants were soaked through. I was COLD. Given we were at the top, I took a pee break, but since my hands were so numb, I could not zip my pants. I pulled my belt and we quickly dropped back down into the trees, descending via a very muddy path with lots of stairs (prevent erosion), landed in Camp Paso. My trekking pole snapped in half along the way, but otherwise it was OK. The descent is extremely slippery when wet, and we all slipped at least once. If we had stayed much longer on the pass, I would have had to put on more layers. Dress warmly if it is raining/snowing.

Our plan was to dry off at paso, eat lunch, and head to Grey, but the guards held everyone due to flooded rivers from the rain. Upon arrival, they looked at us puzzled, and said the pass was closed. Apparently, the guards at Perros did not wake up to notify us ;)

A few other people came across the pass, including one crazy Frenchman who fell shortly after the top, dislocated his shoulder, and made it the rest of the way. What a beast.

The guys at Paso were the nicest guards on the whole trip, and let us dry our clothes over their stove in the guard house. The gave the Frenchman one of their beds, while they slept on the floor, and offered everyone soup. We set up our tent, and waited out the rain. If you can, set-up immediately behind the guard house to avoid the wind. If you do this, be prepared for 2-3 hours of diesel generator noise in the evening. The toilet here is a hole in the ground. They will allow women to use the indoor toilet.

Camp Paso free.

Day 9: Paso to Grey. 10km.

Sunny weather, and a wonderful hike. The highlight of coming over the pass is seeing the glacier, but due to the weather, we saw nothing. The great weather on Day 9 made up for it. We had amazing views of Glacier Grey, and a nice hike to Grey. Note, you have to cross a couple of rivers here, which were quite full. Take care.

Grey is a very developed camp with a nice refugio. Camp amongst the trees, and cook in the dining area.

Grey costs 4300 CLP.

Day 10: Grey to Grande. Catamaran out. 11km.

Easy hike along the lake with views of ice bergs and the glacier. Catch the catamaran at 12:30 and dip out. The boat ride is 15000 CLP, but is a wonderful way to end the trek giving you a chance to see everything you just hiked.

Overall:

Very, very beautiful area, but at risk of becoming too crowded and too developed. There are toilets, showers, and refugios often, and they are building more. Much of the land is actually privately owned, and run by two companies, which is the main reason why. People = money. Check out the 180 Degrees South documentary on Netflix if you have not seen it.

If I were going to give one piece of advice, it would be to do the full circuit, and not just the W. The W was incredibly busy, filled with a host of annoying tourists, and not much fun once you hit camp. The dining areas were packed with people, and it felt like a backpacking hostel in Thailand. There was one particular nationality, which I will not name, that we were told were quite disliked in the area, and we found out why. Trash thrown everywhere, pushing people off tables, washing dished with Dawn soap in the river, noisy late at night, etc. The scenery is beautiful, but there are other parks in Chile to check out.

With all of that said, the back side of the TDP park is great, and my GF and I both really enjoyed the full experience. We had roughly 10-12 people in our crew moving at the same speed, and everyone was very kind and thoughtful. One girl had never set up her own tent, or used her stove, etc. so a few of us helped her out and kept an eye on her.

From a gear perspective, we had to be able to deal with everything from 80 degrees to 20 degrees, including rain, snow, and wind. I kept one set of clothes for camp use only, including a down coat and vest. I bought a wind shirt right before leaving based on some BPL comments, and it was the best purchase I made. You will want one.

Gaiters are not necessary. The "swampy" areas people mention appear to have new foot bridges built on top of them, ensuring you stay dry. Waste of weight.

Pocket Rocket stove worked fine. You can buy fuel on the trail if needed so bring one canister to start. We used 2.

You can buy food on the trail at almost every guard house. Prices are double what they are in town, but still cheap. We ate pasta, oats, cereal, powdered milk, nuts, dried fruit, and a couple of emergency Mountain House meals at the end.

There are showers at roughly half of the camp areas, and all of them warm. We did not have to poop on the ground once due to an abundance of toilets. Lady loved it. My trowel hated it.

Compass is totally unnecessary.

Hat is a bad idea. The wind stole ours on day 2.

Beanie is a must, and a bandana is nice.

Battery pack is nice, but there are outlets along the way. Have your adapter.

Lightweight down coat with vest was perfect. 39 degree bag was fine, as long as you have the straps to keep it in place or do not move around. A couple of nights I was chilly due to moving and letting drafts in.

Bring enough money with you for the whole trek. They have zero ATMs along the way, but surprisingly a few refugios/camps do take credit cards…

If anyone has any questions, or any comments, please share.

[John Ludz]

[John Ludz]

[Jerry Adams]

If you put a blank line between each picture, then they won't be displayed sideways requiring sideways scrolling to view them

Nice pictures and report

[Richard Lyon]

John,

Your report and photos stirred fond memories of the place I consider the most beautiful that I have ever seen. Thanks for posting.

[John Mc]

What a fantastic and adventurous trip you and your girlfriend had. Thanks for sharing. You provided some great information for a possible future trip.

[John Ludz]

@Richard and @John

Thanks for the comments guys. The whole region is incredibly beautiful, and definitely a memory to last a lifetime.

Richard, when did you head down and how was your trip?

After heading to the South of chile, I would love to check out the Atacama region in the North. The area is home to numerous observatories, and considered some of the clearest skies in the world.

[Doug Knox]

Great write up! i'll be in TDP next month (late Feb/March). After reading, you've got me
re-thinking my shelter. I was planning on taking my Hexamid Solo.

Sounds like you have to carry a pocket FULL of cash to pay fees after you leave your hotel in PN (bus, park entry and campsites). My rough calculation of your fees: CLP (176,100) or USD ($280).
Did your carry CLP or USD and how are campsite fees collected?

[Richard Lyon]

John –

I did the Paine Circuit, counterclockwise, in 1999. Can't believe it was fifteen-plus years ago! We had freakish weather – only twenty minutes of rain in ten days. One river was so high from snowmelt that we couldn't get to the Valle Frances. Time to return!

Richard

[John Ludz]

@Doug We brought 150,000 CLP for the trek (2 people), but carried about $50 USD in ten dollar increments as emergency backup (never used). We spent more than we thought due to my girlfriends pension for cookies (1500 CLP per pack), but made it out fine. I would plan out your route, and stops, ensuring you budget accordingly. Bring some extra cash in case you want to buy extra pasta/cookies/etc along the way, and if you plan to eat at one of the refugios, bring extra $ for that as well. Refugio breakfast is a fair price, but the dinners can be up to 18000 CLP, which is a lot. Booze is also expensive if you plan to drink. We had one beer each, and bought one for someone we met the whole trek. We did end up buying some pasta along the way as I eat a lot.

Regarding where to get cash, there are ATMs in the Santiago airport near the donut shop as you are switching to your connecting flight, and also ATMs from major banks in Puerto Natales. We found that the max withdrawl was 150,000 CLP from the ATMs after a bit of trial and error. Take out the max to avoid multiple fees. Use the leftover for your cab back to the airport or for food in town. Do NOT use the exchange companies, ever. They will rip you off in every country across the globe.

Two major companies run the refugios in the park, Fantastico Sur and Vertice Patagonia. It seemed like the Fantastico Sur refugio stops (not camp stops) accepted major credit cards. We opted to still pay with cash, but simply paying with card, and saving the cash may be a better option depending on your cards fees and foreign transaction rates. My card has zero fees and a good rate, which actually makes it better than $ exchange or ATM withdrawl. I am paranoid about where I use my cards, but looking back, given so many people come through I am sure it is fine.

Regarding your tent, it really depends on where you are able to pitch, and what the weather is like that day. It was windy the whole time we were there, with the unusually high wind at the beginning, but besides Grande and Cuernos, your solo would be fine. We met some people coming the opposite direction on the backside, and they had very light wind at both Grande and Cuernos, so it all depends. If you can, plan your route to avoid Cuernos, staying at Italiano, and just start early to ensure you get the prime spots. Often, people tend to camp in one area (herd mentality), but if you wander a bit off to the edges of the camp ground, to a quieter spot, no one cares as long as you are within the boundaries. As an example, when we left Cuernos the next morning, we saw a couple ultralight tents pitched a bit away from camp, leading towards Chileno, that were much more sheltered. They were pitched on the ground, and we erroneously thought we had to be on a platform. Moral of the story, be creative. Away from the herd is also quieter…

I did a bunch of tent research before leaving, and found numerous stories of people using BA Fly Creeks, etc. without issue. With that said, I would plan for a tent that can handle winds. Another option is to bring your Solo, and some extra cash. If the winds are crazy, rent a tent from the refugio/camp site for the one night to be safe. You can stay light weight, use your existing gear, and simply make the decision if you get the crazy winds at those 2-3 sites. All but Paso rent tents.

Windy camps include Grande, Cuernos, Paso (unless behind guard house), and Dickson (if out in open, but easily hide in trees). You can bypass Paso and go straight to Grey from Perros if needed. We wanted to, but were stopped due to flooding.

http://www.fantasticosur.com/en/

Let me know if you have any other questions. If you plan to stay in Santiago, I can recommend a good AirBNB and some places to eat as well.

@Richard Wow, it sounds like you had amazing weather! Besides the wind, we had great weather the first few days, and only hit rain on the backside. After speaking with numerous people there, and meeting people in town we passed while in the park, it seems like there are micro climates throughout the park. Rain in one area while sunny in another, etc.

Did you experience this?

Also, what was it like in 1999???? I imaging there were far less people and less amenities.

[Jennifer Mitol]

I was there in February 2011, right after the fire (the circuit opened the day we arrived at TdP!) and I took a BA fly creek UL2. My friend had a copper spur. No need for anything else, unless you don't really know how to tie extra guy lines. I do think most of the trouble is because the vast majority of the people trekking there have NEVER even seen a tent, let alone set one up.

I would agree on bypassing Cuernos because of the platforms – I thought most of the camping spots were relatively well sheltered and we didn't really have much trouble as far as windy campsites. Windy hiking, YES, but the camping was relatively calm.

Thanks for stressing the need to do the whole circuit and not just the W – we actually started counter-clockwise and did the W part last (Seron was our first night). That way our final morning was the awesome red sunrise on the Torres (sorry you missed that…it was amazing!) and we just ran down that last hill to catch the bus back to PN. Both my friend and I remarked at how we would have been disappointed to come all that way and just do the W, even if we did manage to get to some other parts of patagonia. If you are going there you simply MUST do the back side of the circuit. Otherwise don't even bother…… ;)

[Patrick O’Neil]

I just wanted to chime in and thank the OP for his report. I printed it out and brought it with me on my trip. I was in TDP this past February. My girlfriend and I did the full circuit in 7 days, 6 nights. We skipped Dixon and Grey campsites. All of the campsites except for Paso now have flush toilets. they do tend to get clogged by the end of the day, they seem to be fine early in the morning. I can see why they switched to sceptic systems, the amount of people on the trail was pretty high. At the coiron ranger station between Serron and Dixon we were the second group through that day and the rangers told us that they normally see over 100 people a day in February (and this is supposed to be the quite backside of the park).

We were lucky, we had great weather throughout and absolutely no wind or clouds on John Gardner Pass. I think eventually they will need to think about limiting access in high season but not sure if that will ever happen. In fact they opened a new campsite this year, a pay site near Italiano, I think it's called Frances or something.

Grande Paine site was pretty windy but only 60 kmh winds. We camped were the OP suggested and did well with a Copper Spur UL2. People that camped where the two hills meet in an inverted V were getting hit with wind. Most people had rental tents though and did fine. A go lite tent next to us collapsed but it seems no poles were broken and it wasn't ripped at all. In 7 days of hiking I used my shell twice, the first day on the way to serron was windy and drizzly and a second time on the last day in the morning for an hour or two up to the towers as it was a bit windy. We were realy fortunate to have great weather.

Edit, I forgot to mention Chileno and Serron were 8500 CP per person when we camped there, they both have showers now.

FOOD: None of the hostels wood serve us meals as tenters, only guests were getting food. Chileno offered us a sandwich for 10000 CP when the menu board stated they were 5000 CP, we declined. My GF got us two instant coffees and pringles for 10000 CP at Cuernos, I almost choked when she told me the price. they do sell choclolates and uncooked pasta at ridiculous prices but do not count on prepared meals unless you are staying at the hostel. It might be different in low season.

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