SUL List – Thru Hike Capable?

[Simon Kenton]

SUL List

This list is more hypothetical, as I don't own the CF poncho or bivy, but I'd be interested to know if people thought this list could handle a thru?

Obviously you would have to add some items depending on the hike, but I figure this could handle at least the AT.

Definitely would love to hear the general consensus, thanks in advance.

[Hiking Malto]

Unless you are planning to mostly stay in shelters then I would do a bit more than a poncho tarp. Would work on the PCT but not AT IMHO. Also, is that pad really how you want to spend several months. Again, not for me, a good nights sleep is more important than a couple of ounces. Hipbelt, is that a good idea when loaded with three Thru hiker days worth of food. Your base weight could be low but your food weight will eclipse your gear weight in many cases.

I don't believe a thru hike is the place for SUL. You are living on the trail, not suffering through a night just to claim some excel spreadsheet label. I hiked with three very experience long distance hikers, all triple crowners in Oct and all of our base weights were about the same near 8 lbs. the weird thing was that our gear was very similar as well. Mid style tarps, down quilts and neoairs. I know at least a couple of us had added a lb or so back to an over weight optimized gear set.

[Luke Schmidt]

I think you COULD do the trip with that gear list. The question is whether you want too. If your goal is some kind of speed record go for it. But if you plan on going a bit slower and enjoying it I'd change a few things. Remember on the AT when it rains it pours, a tiny tarp will get old unless all you do is sleep under it. And setting up a poncho tarp in downpour sounds depressing. I'd us a bigger tarp, a complete rain suit and a more comfortable pad.

[Aaron Sorensen]

+1 What Luck said.

Making my own gear allows me a 3oz impetus 1.1 bivy and a bigger tarp that would weigh about the same with less stakes.

I have a Klymit Inertia O-Zone that I cut and sealed that made it 8.5 ounces. It has an excellent pillow to boot.

Only other thing I would change would be to get a mini sawyer inline filter. Beats tasting Aqua Mira for months on end.

[Simon Kenton]

Maybe the list is better geared towards the PCT than the AT. You can rig the MLD kilt for extra coverage with the poncho tarp though.

[Eli Zabielski]

Didn't Scott Williamson go sub-5 for his 64 day record on the PCT?

Since I mostly wander around in the West, I can't really give great recommendations for the AT but you could easily go sub-5 if you went no cook.

Also you could
– Ditch the matches (-11g). Less of a need for backup fire starter if you're going no-cook.
– Lighter ditty sack (-15g). HMG CF8 8"x10"
– Use a 1L bottle (-11g)
– You don't seem to have extra clothing with which to put into your clothing stuff sack? Use your food bag as a pillow instead? (-57g)

Your Prophet is 31g heavier than mine. I got mine without a hipbelt or the hydration bladder features.

Also, just a windshirt? EDIT: I see you're using a poncho tarp.

[Simon Kenton]

Great advice all around Eli, made some corrections but left the cook kit on the list. Could get close to 4.75lbs w/o the cook kit

It's not that I am actually planning a thru with this list, I just wanted to throw it out there to see what people thought.

Seems like it could be a nice list for those who want to go fast and light for a thru.

Edit – re: the heavier prophet, I was able to score this prophet on a sale from MLD for a great deal but it still has the hydration features, which I won't be using.

[Simon Kenton]

Does anyone have any experience with the 2g Terra Nova stakes?

I know that they have very little holding power, but for a hike where you rarely setup your shelter (e.g., PCT), they could save 1.5 oz over the toaks.

[Eli Zabielski]

For the PCT you could:

– Ditch the rain mitts and rain kilt (-112g) till at least Washington.
– Change convertible pants to running shorts (~4oz) and Montbell wind pants (~3oz) and save 5oz of worn weight.
– Shortsleeve button shirt for 5-6oz.
– Sleep with your food and ditch the bear kit where hanging is not required (and use a Bear Can where they are required) (-18g)

The Lone Peak 1.5's apparently have horrible durability for a thru hike but 2.0's are supposed to have fixed that problem.

No phone though? And I can't imagine 10g of maps is very useful.

[Paul Magnanti]

"I don't believe a thru hike is the place for SUL. You are living on the trail, not suffering through a night just to claim some excel spreadsheet label. "

That's my own take.

SUL works best for specific environments and conditions. A multi-month thru-hike usually requires a bit more of a multi-use kit.

There are always exceptions, but most people with a sub-5lb kit tend to be doing something very specific and with corresponding conditions.

It would be like comparing the gear I use to ski at a resort vs skiing in the backcountry.

Yes, both are skiing. But skiing at a resort has some very specific parameters and can be counted on to be consistent.

The AT is a very wet trail. You did not say when you were hiking. Wet and cold, in the 40s found in the southern Appalachians is a worse cold than the dry and 40s I see in Colorado (for example).

FWIW, I am in the 8lb club for solo-three season hiking. More or less. Been a long time since I accurately weighed my gear. :)

[Simon Kenton]

"It would be like comparing the gear I use to ski at a resort vs skiing in the backcountry.

Yes, both are skiing. But skiing at a resort has some very specific parameters and can be counted on to be consistent."

I like this analogy ^

As I said, I'm not attempting a thru with this kit. If you want to see my PCT list you can find it here:

PCT Rough Draft

[Paul Magnanti]

Actually you said

" but I'd be interested to know if people thought this list could handle a thru?"

..and I answered appropriately.

Thanks for the clarification.

[M B]

Thru hike of what?

JMT? Yes.

Major 2000 mile trail? No. Especially not the AT in the spring when its cold and wet.

[Simon Kenton]

Well, I do appreciate everyone's responses. Seems the majority of respondents think that a couple of extra pounds is necessary for a thru hike.

I would probably agree (as evidenced by my gear list) but, truthfully, I was hoping there would be some feedback in the opposite direction.

Thanks to all who chimed in!

[Luke Schmidt]

Just to be fair if you want the other side of the story check out Joe's lists for his thru-hikes on Zpacks.com. He was SUL or nearly so. Course there was a lot of Cuban fiber involved. I think most would agree he was an outlier though.

I know one hiker did a yo-yo on the AT with a SUL baseweight but you have to look at the details to see what going SUL meant for him. If I recall he had no rain gear going north, he just hike to stay warm, that won't work for all of us. Going south he used a cheap poncho. I believe his shelter was a water proof bivy. So yeah it CAN be done its just a question of whether you will enjoy it.

[M B]

Some eminently qualified hikers gave you good feedback.

I would just add, cold and wet conditions necessitate a midlayer you can hike in or use when stop, like fleece, and you want dry clothes to put on in camp, usually long underwear. After that its just the shelter choice and sleeping pad comfort. Also need warmer pad in cold conditions.

Most 22yr old thru hikers on AT use zlite pad. Older people cannot tolerate that anymore. Neoair is lighter anyway, but possibly more trouble if get leak.

[Paul Magnanti]

"Most 22yr old thru hikers on AT use zlite pad. Older people cannot tolerate that anymore. Neoair is lighter anyway, but possibly more trouble if get leak."

Ahem. This 40 year old hiker still uses a thin piece of foam for his solo hiking. :) The z-lite is only broken out for trips with the Mrs and/or more camp time. Odd..I know!

[Aaron Sorensen]

"I don't believe a thru hike is the place for SUL. You are living on the trail, not suffering through a night just to claim some excel spreadsheet label. "

If I ever do a full PCT or AT thru hike, I am definitely going SUL.
There's no suffering if you do it right.
The suffering would be from carrying double the weight in gear for over 2,000 miles.

Kelly,
Many people have given you ways to lighten up.
How is that not feedback in the opposite direction?

Eli says,
– Ditch the rain mitts and rain kilt (-112g) till at least Washington.
– Change convertible pants to running shorts (~4oz) and Montbell wind pants (~3oz) and save 5oz of worn weight.
– Shortsleeve button shirt for 5-6oz.
– Sleep with your food and ditch the bear kit where hanging is not required (and use a Bear Can where they are required) (-18g)

I add,
– Make a 3 ounce bivy.
– For SUL, your cook kit isn't on the light side. Maybe for a bought system, but you could cut 40% of the weight off easily.
– The nightlite is heavier than most use for a simple pad. My cut down z-lites and 1/4" pads weigh at least 1.5 ounces less.

You are acting as something bought is the lightest of what it can be and cannot be changed.
This is not even close to true. Hack away…
You can very very easily go SUL.

[Paul Magnanti]

"If I ever do a full PCT or AT thru hike, I am definitely going SUL.
There's no suffering if you do it right.
The suffering would be from carrying double the weight in gear for over 2,000 miles."

:)

This reminds of someone who recently argued over the superiority of one product over another and vehemently disagreed with my reviews of both. He went so far as to say my opinion was just plain wrong. Even though I have owned and used both items in question. Plus..how can an opinion be wrong? :)

He then fessed up. He did not own either product and only knew from what he read about them on the Internet.

An opinion presented as fact with no experience is not too valid.

Aaron, your JMT speed attempts were impressive from an athletic standpoint. But give you a very narrow experience base for the longer trails.

That's OK…many thru-hikers fall into a similar trap as well.

Here's a more realistic take on it from Matthew Kirk, current AT record holder (traditional style): http://bit.ly/1JdLPOi

A little over 5 lbs. Just keep in mind for his successful record, he was doing mega miles over a two month period during the peak of summer. Again, a very specific way of doing something. An outlier.

Warner Springs Monty did a PCT thru with sub-5lb pack…and switched to a "heavy" 8lb pack another year. May be more applicable to most people.

These excel spreadsheet exercises may work for Internet discussion but less so for a successful completion of a thru-hike.

[Mike Henrick]

I think some folks are forgetting the advantage of speed here. If you can train A LOT (like a 500 mile trail) before you start and hit the trail doing 30+ miles per day, that solves a lot of problems. It shortens the window of time you need for the trail so you can time your hike for warmer, drier weather. 100 mile resupply stretches become 3 day stretches, so less food weight. You don't have to dry camp on the PCT as much and can get by without carrying quite as much water. If things do good bad with the weather you've got a much higher chance of being within a day of town to dry out. Less wear and tear on the gear too helps.

Also I love my GG night light =p

I would have to add a few things for a good thru-hike though:
-Camera or at least a cell phone with a decent camera. Long trails are great experiences and you'll really regret it if you have no photo's or real crappy ones. A cell phone also helps immensely with logistics.
-Umbrella, for me since I don't use poles and the shade and rain protection means I can carry a wind shirt the whole trail ala Tapon.
-Repair kit for your gear and some stuff for blisters and what not, only a few ounces but makes a big differences 1,500 miles in when things start to fall apart.
-Hand sanitizer since most folks who think they have giardia are mostly just unhygienic.

[Author]

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