53 vs 58 cm ice axe

[Ito Jakuchu]

Ok.
I have an ice axe. A Black Diamond Raven Pro 75cm and I hardly ever use it. I am 6'1" and it is sized nicely for flatter ground. I always have trekking poles though and never use the ice axe when moving over easier ground.

Then I went to the Mont Blanc, and we had to cross some glaciers before we could go ice climbing and mixed climbing.
I didn't use it then either. Rented two axes. One technical ice axe (eclimb cryo), and one kind of mixed-use short Grivel that I was using to traverse the glaciers/pass the crevasses. On the steep technical terrain ice climbing I used it in combination with the cryo axe. I was going to check the size of the rented gear once we got back, but of course didn't (too busy stuffing my face)..

Now I would like to get a Grivel Air Tech Evolution. Use would be:

1: This for when I am on non technical terrain in Japan, when for the majority of the time I would use trekking poles. When on dodgy or steeper sections I could get the one axe out. Even in summer in the Japanese Alps I have been on terrain where I wanted an axe because of year long ice fields that were too steep.

2: When going back to Mont Blanc etc. I could again use it for ice climbing, in combination with a rented technical axe. It would do double duty during glacier traverses, in combination with one trekking pole.

I thought it would be easy but I have been going back and forth between 53 and 58 cm sizes. The 58 feels better for glacier use. The 53 feels better for actual climbing use. Went to a shop today where they had both and still thought I'd get the one, then the other.

58 seems more general, but I don't want to make the same mistake again, and have a too long axe that I end up not using. On the other hand, I don't fancy bending over like an old man to stick the 53 into the ground with each step.
I will just commit to one or the other, but thought I'd ask here and see what people's thoughts are.

So the question:
For people using an axe with one pole – how did that work for you? Do you put the pick in the ground with each step or only mostly use the pole and just have the axe ready in case you slip? And for people that have experience using an axe like the air tech evo in combination with a technical axe (that are mostly 50cm), did you think a 58 was definitely too long or totally fine?

Any advice/experiences shared greatly appreciated.

[Rick M]

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[Ito Jakuchu]

Thanks Rick for the fast reply.
My thinking is I have my trekking poles for that. Or the longer 75cm axe?

For limited sections of ice in Japan I would never bring the 75. Or I have never. Too long on my pack, too much weight. So I make do without – cursing myself when looking back down.

My thinking was for those limited sections – when I would bring an axe for occasional/emergency use, shorter would be better. And I would want to use the same axe in combination when ice climbing.

For when using an axe all the time on less technical ground, deep layer of powder, or smaller 45˚, I am totally with you and I would bring the 75 Raven Pro that I already have.

[Rick M]

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[Dave Marcus]

Don't count on a trekking pole for self-arrest. They're not designed for it and ineffective.

For ski-mo/backcountry trips, I carry one BD Traverse (with a CF lower from the carbon probe pole), one carbon Whippet, and one 65cm Raven. I climb with the Whippet and Raven and ski with the Traverse in my left hand and the Whippet in my right.

If I had to choose a single axe, I'd go with the Camp Corsa Nanotech. It's offered in 50, 60, and 70 cm increments.

[Ito Jakuchu]

Thanks for the replies.

I appreciate the recommendation for the axe. I'm getting the Grivel Air Tech Evo because my most common use is climbing ice/steep snow (in combination with a technical axe) and I like that the Grivel is T-rated.

I know I like the 53cm for the ice climbing part, but could go to 58cm if that would be much better for when using it in combination with one trekking pole for glacier crossing (going to the actual climbing site). I'd use the pole for balance, in combination with the Grivel that I could use for self arrest.

[Richard Fischel]

it's a great add-on.

[Ito Jakuchu]

Absolutely. The one with the leash I could just do as well with a sling.

Any thoughts on length? :)

[Richard Fischel]

it's a highly personal choice. that's my thoughts on length. i'm your height and i have old ice tools (not leashless), and a 73 cm straigh shaft ice axe for simple glacier travel and a 58 cm grivel air tech racing for when it gets a little steeper. at this point there's nothing that i would do that couldn't be done with one tool and either of the ice axes. all that being said, i pretty-much carry the air tech most of the time.

[Will Elliott]

I am 6'1" and have a 58cm Grivel AirTech Racing for the conditions you describe, which I pair with an ice tool. I have added the Slider accessory to the ice ax since the handle is slippery for plunging. Any longer would be too long on terrain steep enough to need an ice axe. The size is perfect for me. I can still swing it but it's not too short to use as a cane.

Ice axe plus ski pole is great.

[Will Elliott]

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[Ito Jakuchu]

Went to have a look and agree the 58cm looks great/most versatile.
Which is why I'm kind of perplexed that I got a 53? Guess I wanted more of a difference with the 75 Raven Pro.

Thanks for the thoughts. Much Appreciated.

[David Thomas]

>"Don't count on a trekking pole for self-arrest. They're not designed for it and ineffective."

True that.

And yet. I self-arrested with a X-C ski pole on the side of Pyramid Peak in Desolation Wilderness one January 30-odd years ago. My metal edged skis slipped off a 40-degree slope and suddenly I was sliding, faster and faster down a slope that I knew led to a 75 degree slope that ended in a forested area and if I went off that edge, I might be done for.

The take-home message for me: When in a crisis, use what you have have. Competently and vigorously, but use it! Next-level message for me: Bring a little more gear than you expect to need and/or be ready to turn back a little sooner.

[Jeff Jeff]

I am 6'1". I have a 70cm Raven for general mountaineering and it seems long when doing self belay on long steep routes. Great for glacier slogs and acceptable for everything else in moderation. My ice tools are Grivel Light Wings which are equivalent to about 53cm.

I picked up an Air Tech Evo in 58cm for two purposes: a stand alone axe on steeper snow and to supplement a single ice tool when an ice axe and tools are wanted. I have swung both side by side in ice and the 5cm difference was not even close to noticeable. I haven't climbed vertical water ice with the Evo and I don't plan on it. I am sure it would be fine for a few moves though.

If you think you'll be swinging on vertical ice more, go shorter. If you think you'll be doing a lot of self belay, go longer.

[Richard Fischel]

and if i had to guess, the tool has a hammer not an adze. as mentioned above, this wouldn't be the setup multi-pitch water ice.

[Steve K]

I use the 59cm Petzl Sum'Tec for all my winter backpacking trips. I have also climbed WI3+/4 happily with it paired with a technical tool.

[rOg w]

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[Ito Jakuchu]

The replies from people with similar height got me thinking.
After a couple of times swinging with a technical tool and the air tech evo in both sizes I found the 58 worked great as well in that combination. As stated the longer length will be easier for general lower grade use and as I was able to switch it I went from 53 to 58cm length.

Thanks for all the feedback.
I'm in Europe again and will do some climbing around Courmayeur in the next week or so.

Cheers

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