Used Camera ~ Is this a “clean” or “normal” sensor?

[Robsudac *]

Hello all and thanks in advance for your reply. I appreciate your comments as I find myself in unchartered waters here.

I received a used Canon body on Saturday. The seller stated that everything was in working condition and no functional issues. Excitedly, I affixed a lens to the body and peeped through the viewfinder and was absolutely shocked at the debris on the sensor, no less than 50 spots/marks. The full resolution sensor pictures are much worse on my computer screen. I find it shocking that a seller with 60+ positive feedback here on a major photography buy/sell forum would not disclose this, claim that this is a "clean" and "normal" sensor, and be so rude.

I baby all of my gear and if I sell something, I am certain to under promise and over deliver. If needed, I send my gear to Canon for cleaning as I do not feel comfortable purchasing a DIY sensor cleaning kit. Getting it cleaned is going to cost me about $60. Am I being unreasonable here with my expectations? Is this sensor "clean" or "normal" to you?

http://tinypic.com/r/2qup7if/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2nv45ya/8

A sample of our correspondence:

Buyer: "I do need to express my great disappointment with the condition of the sensor. It is absolutely filthy. I have seen the occasional dust spec here and there on sensors as it's a part of owning dSLR equipment, but this is completely unacceptable in my opinion and another fellow photographer that I showed this to. I will attach three photos that I took of the blue sky this afternoon, Saturday November 8th. The first was taken with my Canon 24-70 at 70mm, f/22, ISO 100. Dust and hair and other debris everywhere. The second was taken with a Tamron 28-75 at 75mm, f/32, ISO 100. Same exact thing. I re-mounted my Canon 24-70 to take a third picture and it shows the same dust, same hair, same debris, same dirty sensor. You have great feedback here on FM, which is why I am shocked to receive this 5dm2 in this condition. The rest of the body matches your photos and your description, but this camera is not usable as it was sent to me. I would like to hear your thoughts on this please."

Seller: "Go ahead and return it. I will have the sensor cleaned and then relist it…. Yes, my remorse is to have sold it to you. You are the only buyer who have called my camera filthy. I can also just ignore you if that's better attitude to you… This is 1 of the cleanest sensors I have seen. Try the built-in cleaner and if you still think it unfunctional return it tomorrow…. You have today and tomorrow to send it out and provide the tracking#. Or the case will be closed. No other communication is necessary. Right, if anything is a joke it will be buyers like you."

[Roger Caffin]

Well, there's more stuff on the sensor than I would accept, and it is the same across the two photos.
Was there any cover over the sensor or lens fitting when you got the camera? Should have been.

I guess the seller is feeling a bit unhappy and defensive. Can't blame him for that, but the dirt is there.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

Yes, there are more dust spots on the images that is normal. It is surprising to see that much dust unless there was no body cap where the lens would have been. Further, I have found the Canon automatic sensor cleaning to be pretty good, assuming that it was actually running as expected on each start up and shut down.

That makes a good case for why I never buy used camera equipment from a stranger. You don't know what you are going to get.

–B.G.–

[Robsudac *]

Hi Roger. Thanks for your reply.

Yup, there was a Canon sensor cap on it and the camera body was packaged really well (inside a plastic bag, enclosed in bubble wrap, and everything was fully covered with popcorn styrofoam.

I just feel that this is something that should have been clearly disclosed… "Sensor is dirty, will require a thorough cleaning."

It's going to cost me $60 to have Canon clean it, or $40 for a self-cleaning kit. I've been researching and watching online tutorials this afternoon. Had I known I would receive it in this condition, I would have either lowered my purchase price or passed on the sale.

The sellers stance that the sensor is clean and his attitude do not help matters either. That may have me the most peeved! I cannot imagine selling something in this condition and not disclosing it, and then when called out on it, deferring all blame.

Anyhow, may the good light find all you BPL photographers.

[Robsudac *]

Hi Bob and thanks for your comments. Incidentally, it was from a San Jose photographer ;)

The seller had 60 "Great" feedbacks left with zero "Fair"/"Poor." I thought I did ample due diligence by reading his feedback left by others and talking on the phone.

Perhaps what made this whole ordeal the most shocking to me is that such a highly rated seller would be so unresponsive, unapologetic, and tried to justify what he sent. He hsa been very unpleasant and it has been like pulling teeth. He did not attempt to make things right and instead defers the blame by saying that it is clean and normal.

I want to leave him negative feedback but with most feedback systems, my biggest fear is that he has retribution available by tagging me with a similar "Poor" feedback.

[Bob Gross]

First of all, I agree that the seller's attitude was the worst part of the deal. Once the transaction clears and you get your money back, go ahead and indict him here in this forum in order to warn the rest of the photographers here.

Years ago, before the automatic sensor cleaning feature became standard, I cleaned my own Canon sensors on three bodies. That was especially necessary since I changed lenses in the field a lot. However, I had a $10 cleaning kit of fluid and swabs, and I got the hang of it quickly and without scratching the sensor.

I think that every Canon body that I have had since about 2006 has had the automatic feature, so I have not had to lift a swab.

Can I assume that the automatic feature had been enabled on that camera body? Or, did the previous owner disable it? That would certainly explain a few things.

–B.G.–

[Robsudac *]

Hi Bob. It's a used 5dmii with about 74k on the shutter. You never know when a sensor will fail. Some are delivered DOA while others can hit seven digits. Statistically there should be plenty of life left on this shutter as its rated to 150k.

The auto sensor clean was/is turned on, and it was engaged both at power on and power off. A few of the particles moved in the two photos, so it is shaking some of them off a little bit. But there is still a ton of crud on that sensor that will require a thorough cleaning.

I have a Giotto's rocket blower that I will use sometime this week to see what else comes off. I have a 5Dc (no auto sensor clean) that had its sensor cleaned by Canon a few months ago and a 40D (auto clean). I am overly cautious about where and under what conditions I swap my lenses and I really, really hate sensor specs!

I am actually on the opposite spectrum in that I love buying used, as long as they come from reputable sellers. I find that I am patient with my purchases, I can pick up some great deals and essentially "rent" my photography gear and sell it for nearly what I paid +/-. Cheers.

[Bob Gross]

If you use a blower or anything else to clean the sensor, then you have bought the camera. Otherwise, the seller can claim that you damaged it by cleaning it.

–B.G.–

[Robsudac *]

I was able to get a decent deal on it. After the headache thus far, actually getting my money back could be another issue. Worst case scenario is that I return it and he does not refund my money. =O

[Bob Gross]

"I was able to get a decent deal on it."

Now you know why.

Once I find myself with an older camera body that I want to obsolete, I just give it away to a friend, relative, or beginner photographer. I avoid lots of headaches that way.

–B.G.–

[Robsudac *]

Deal or no deal, the seller should have disclosed a filthy sensor! For him to call that normal and clean is an absolute farce! Okay, enough beating of a dead horse.

Let me know when you are giving away your 1dX/5d3/a7r/etc ;)

[Jacob D]

You said that you didn't see it until you peeped through the viewfinder… you can't see sensor dust through the view finder, however you can see dirt on your lens (most likely the rear element) through the finder.

You can also see dirt on the finder screen itself, although this is showing up in your images, so it's likely either on the lens (and/or sensor).

By the way, even if most dust is on the sensor and not your lens, it looks like it will clean easily with a rocket blower and sensor pen. Things like grease are much harder to get off cleanly. I would probably just clean it and be done with it.

[Robsudac *]

Hi Jacob. Thanks for your reply. Yes, turns out the viewfinder was pretty dirty, and I should have know that anything seen here is not on the sensor. But the sensor is still pretty as evidenced in my two pics taken with two different lenses. I am pretty meticulous with my gear! Anyhow, I started a thread over on Fred Miranda and the pro photographers seemed to be in agreement that this should have been expected and was normal. Yikes! I have a Giottos rocket blower that should get a lot of it off, and I am reading up on some video tutorials about sensor cleaning kits so I will give that a go.

[Jacob D]

I'd tend to agree with them over at FM. Given the age of the camera, I'd consider it "a little dirtier than average" but definitely not "unusable".

The seller should have mention that it had some sensor dust.

I have had nothing but positive experiences dealing with the forums over at FM. Buying used camera gear is perfectly ok if you buy from people who genuinely know that they're doing and how to treat their gear. There are always a few people out there though who have slightly lower standards.

[Robsudac *]

I wish he would have disclosed that too.

I've had great success with nary a hiccup at both the Buy/Sell forums at FM and POTN. I lurk here on BPL and those two websites daily. Lots of great forum posts and useful information and just general gear talk. Cheers and happy shooting.

[Jacob D]

Cool beans.

I used to post regularly at FM, but somehow a password reset caused a problem with my account and now apparently it can't be reset at all. They don't have a direct admin/contact link unless you're logged in, so I'm pretty much outta luck! Tried contacting Fred directly and using other back channels, but no dice. SO that's my only grip about FM :)

I wish I could get back on there.

Anyway, enjoy your new MkII… very nice camera.

[Author]

Posts