Hammock newbie, some questions and thoughts

[Anonymous]

So i've decided i want to try out hammocking, but i want to do so cheaply and to use as much as my present gear as i can. Which rules out under quilts, at least for awhile until i see if it's for me or not.

So if i bought a cheap pre made hammock, and sewed a sleeve onto the bottom, would that help with using my neo air all season pad for bottom insulation? Or am i likely to still have issues with keeping it properly under me?

Also, it seems like that a good amount of the heat loss on the bottom of a hammock is convective–as i will already be using a pad which is non breathable, would it make sense to use something like argon silnylon for the sleeve material? Reasoning being besides the first point, is that heat rises and carries moisture with it (not completely but mostly), there would be some air space and ability for air convection to take place (just much reduced), and so while it's possible that the bottom might get soaked some from moisture it also possible that it would be reduced to the point of not being much of an issue? Part of the reason of wanting to use the silnylon, is because i know the pad won't cover all the bottom area that i would need it to and think the non breathable material would help a bit in lessening convective heat loss in those "extra areas".

I know this would suck for warmer temps, like in the summer. I don't do much backpacking in the summer anyways, but if i was, what i would do is to sew the sleeve up only about half way or so, and do the rest with velcro, so that in warm/hot temps, i wouldn't even use a pad and then disconnect half the sleeve allowing for a lot more air circulation.

Or would it just be better to use a breathable, but tightly woven and very wind resistant material like M50?

[James Cahill]

I don't think that argon alone would keep you warm on the sides where the hammock compresses your insulation, I think you'd want some extra foam width in the shoulder and hip areas. Maybe add some "wings" to the sleeve and shove a couple of ccf sections in there

Also, make sure you find your comfort position in the hammock before you sew the sleeve!

edited for shilly shpelling

[Anonymous]

Yeah, i agree, i don't think the silnylon alone would compensate enough, though it should help a little. Foam wings or similar might be a good idea.

"Also, make sure you find your comfort position in the hammock before you sew the sleeve!"

Good point–i was planning on setting it up in my yard first and having my spouse mark the areas while i'm in same, to get a better idea.

Thanks for the feedback James.

[James Cahill]

Of course! It may take a few nights to find where you are truly comfortable (angle, hammock sag, etc.). I made myself a double layer to hold the pad in place, which allows for increased adjustment and pad width.

If you can sew already, it may not add to much cost to make yourself an Apex underquilt. Or, if you only plan on using it in the colder seasons, a hammock with the bottom insulation sewn in! (see JustJeff and hammockforums)

[Anonymous]

Yeah, i could definitely make an Apex quilt for pretty cheap, but of late my time has become more scarce as i'm working a full time and part time job.

Thanks for the tips.

[Steven McAllister]

I find that unless a sleeping pad is very wide, it's not warm enough. Anything touching the sides of the hammock would get cold. Arms and hips when sleeping on my back and knees when on my side.

I have had good luck with re-purposing a sleeping bag as an underquilt and with a little tweaking was nice and warm. Not as light as a real hammock underquilt, but a good replacement for a sleeping pad.

You could try experimenting with a spare sleeping bag, or even a blanket can be fitted using paper clamps, clothespins and such.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the tips Steven. I will probably play around with a few different options.

I want to try the Neo Air All Season pad, in combo with some foam sides and see that works first as i don't have much in the way of extra sleep insulation otherwise. I bought my wife a 0 degree quilt, and i have a 40 degree one–they don't match very well to be used at the same time, whether more extremely cold or more warm.

[Dale Wambaugh]

The cheap and light route is a simple 25+" wide CCF pad.

The Neoair pad is a great idea, but it needs to be on an angle, not on axis. Sewing through the center of a light cheap hammock may create a rip line and dump you on the ground. Check out undercovers and Garlington Insulators for using alternative insulation.

[Anonymous]

Really good point Dale, thank you for pointing that out. If i don't use silnylon for the bottom sleeve(s), but some kind of untreated nylon, i could do the iron and press bond stuff.

[James White]

If you need more ides or info check out hammockforums.net. A lot of different setups on there, and many DIYers. Should be a great place for ideas. I picked up hammock camping as a way to get ultralight a few years ago.

[Steven McAllister]

I agree that Hammock Forums is a great source for info, but be aware that most people who post there have only a minor concern about the weight of their gear.

You will see a lot of advice that will make BPL members cringe.

Most of the setups I've seen at the hammock hangs that I have been to have been way to heavy than they needed to be.

Most do not hike long distances with their gear and so have different objectives to us at BPL.

You can usually spot them because they tend to prefer lots of metal gizmos, giant tarps, strap suspensions over line suspensions, etc…

[Dale Wambaugh]

Jusin suppoed, " If i don't use silnylon for the bottom sleeve(s), but some kind of untreated nylon, i could do the iron and press bond stuff."

For an experimental undercover, you can just gather the ends of any old hunk o' cloth and hang it under your hammock. I've done it with a space blanket. Polycro would work too— I need to try that!

This my Hennesey with a combo poncho/undercover with insulators stashed inside made from folded/sandwiched space blankets. A simple sling made from polycro would work the same way.

[Phillip Asby]

I started here and moved to HF – and there are some there who seem not terribly concerned about weight although most newbie questions will be met with an answer that some solutions only downside is weight so not everyone is a camel there!

Having said that, much like here, there is a tradeoff in terms of cost and weight. More affordable hammocks and stock suspensions also tend to be heavier. Ditto for insulation solutions and weather protection. You can get an ENO and a walmart blue tarp with atlas straps and paracord and get hanging. You'll also have a really heavy setup without even getting to insulation.

Like here, start getting into cat cut hex tarps from silnylon or better nylon, or even more exotic – cuben – and prices go up expectedly. Get a Hennessy or Warbonnet or one of the cottage gear makers stuff (I have two Simply Light Designs hammocks that are just stellar); add in lighter suspensions and costs go up.

The parallel for me at least exists – a Big Agnes SUL 1 person is more expensive than an Ozark Trail tent but weighs 1/3 or 1/4…

You can save a bit by going to cottage makers – there are plenty on HF and maybe even moreso than here provide similar or better quality at lower prices (here it seems like many specialize in more exotic stuff like cuben, etc…).

Anyway – to your question about a pad – that was one concession I made to trying out hammocks. I got a used underquilt after trying out a pad. I just couldn't get it comfortable and figured if I was going to try a hammock whose primary benefit is comfort I needed to evaluate it in the best light possible. And I could sell the UQ easily enough if I just didn't like hammocking. I did, however, get a synthetic UQ since it was cheaper and it is pretty light albeit bulky. I stuck with my sleeping bags which I now see is suboptimal but I have two good down bags and just couldn't justify any more investment. I may look at a top quilt as an option for both ground and hanging but am not there yet.

So I'd try a pad – many use them successfully but I do think an underquilt is one item worth stretching for over a top quilt, upgraded suspension, upgraded hammock or a fancier tarp, it is so much more comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for the further replies and suggestions.

I tried my first hang this weekend. I didn't get a chance to mod the hammock (put a sleeve on the bottom for a pad). So instead, i tried the ENO pad stabilizer thingy. Yeah, didn't work so well. It may be that i didn't set up the hammock well, but even when i significantly deflated the All Season pad, it didn't feel all that comfortable, nor did it stay in place well with the ENO. The only good thing about the ENO thing, was that the two foams sides did help a bit with not being as cold.

So i ended up going to ground, and using the hammock as a sort of bivy.

I'm hoping that putting a sleeve on the bottom will help, but if not, i will start looking for UQ when i can afford to.

[Lori P]

I wouldn't use a non breathable undercover.

A DriDucks poncho will work great. Light, but not terribly durable. But, multifunctional! I added draw strings to the bottom edges to draw up the ends against the hammock, grosgrain loops on the corners to attach to the underquilt suspension lines and it cuts the breeze nicely without gathering condensation on the inside of it from my body.

I've used a regular poncho (not breathable) in the past and had a puddle of water in it by morning – I use undercovers to cut the breeze coming through the seams of the underquilt, and would rather not have wet surface against a down filled quilt. The undercover can be Pertex or Driducks and does not need to be waterproof to be a windbreak.

A foam pad, or two, can be great in a hammock, and light. Tons more comfortable in the hammock than on the ground. Take a torso length and a full length – make a T shape in the hammock, with the top of the T at about where your torso is. Play with the angle of the pads to find your "good spot." A double layer hammock is a good way to keep them in place. That undercover you talk about above – if you ditch the undercover idea and get a second layer (the difference is the undercover will sag but a second layer keeps insulation against you) and use two pads, you won't need the windbreak as much. Stuff extra clothing items in alongside the pads.

I migrated to quilts a long time ago and am happy to take the hit on weight. Perhaps it adds a pound to the pack, but it adds several orders of magnitude in comfort. Having insulation that moves with you and readjusts around you instead of "squirting" out from under you is wonderful… I've a series of pads for alpine trips and for places like Point Reyes where you don't get trees in campsites. But the hammock is the ultimate sleep.

[Steven McAllister]

Re: "The undercover can be Pertex or Driducks and does not need to be waterproof to be a windbreak."

Or even very light ripstop, which breaths even better and inexpensive.
It could even be made larger than the underquilt to extend as far as the hammock ridgeline to reduce draft on the top insulation as well.
This helps reduce the cold nose/face significantly

[Dale Wambaugh]

I was concerned with condensation and did a series of tests over a month of nights using several kinds of waterproof non-breathable materials for undercovers in humid summer weather with night time lows into the low 50s F and 85% humidity and couldn't get more than a light film of moisture to condense inside the cover.

I bought the Hennessy SuperShelter foam pad separately from Hennessy and use that with a space blanket and my multi-use poncho undercover, effectively cloning Hennessy's system. I have been comfortable into the mid 40s F and had no condensation issues.

I was using a Hennessy Expedition with a diamond rainfly and a 32F synthetic mummy bag.

[Lori P]

Whereas in my experience with undercovers, the nonbreathable poncho loosely draped over the under quilt in the low 20s in the dead calm stillness of winter resulted in a puddle of water in the poncho, and ice flakes on the shell of the quilt.

Clearly not going to get the same results in variable conditions with various people, making the case for personal experimentation.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Freezing seems to be the factor, which I haven't experienced in hammock camping yet. I imagine that the edge seal at the hammock/undercover junction might make some difference too. I wonder how the spacing of layers might effect condensation too.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Lori for the advice, got yah on the don't use non breathable undercover, and make "double layer" verse undercover.

I have some Argon i can use for that. I will bond it to the ENO nylon fabric instead of sewing it.

I just bought some clearance 48 inch wide 1/8th Evazote foam. I'm going to taper it, and bond the inner layer to match it. Since Evazote has a bit of innate grip, that should help too.

I have some egg crate type Evazote foam, and will try combining a torso piece of that with the 1/8th, with the hopes that the air pockets may add a bit of extra, sort of free insulation.

[Doug Smith]

I guess I've just had very good luck, but the couple times I've slept in a hammock so far I haven't had any issue at all with a pad slipping, in spite of using a single layer hammock. I used my Neo-air X-therm and single layer WBBB multicam. The pad stayed perfectly put.

[Stuart .]

I just picked up an XTherm to try side by side with my DownMat UL7. The Exped's top surface is very slippery, but on a level surface the outer two baffles really help keep you on the pad. In contrast, I've been surprised how sticky the top and bottom surfaces are on the XTherm. That seems to be how TAR have addressed the 'slipping off the pad' and 'sliding on the tent floor' challenges. And I would imagine that's what helps keep you on the pad in a hammock, Doug.

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