My snowshoe footwear system

[chris smead]

Last years system: SW liners, thick socks, Merrill Moab mid, shorty gaiters, micro spikes or norther lite snowshoes. = cold wet feet.
I'm thinking of adding an overboots like these https://www.40below.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=13

Think his will help? Should I switch to my trail runners in here instead?
Is it necessary to get a VBL sock?

Should I ditch all this and just use rockys socks instead?

Help me I'm hopelessly lost.

[Paul McLaughlin]

What kind of temperatures do you normally encounter? The answer to that has a big affect on what one might suggest.
But a few things are basic.
Number one, never put too much sock in the boot. If your socks are too thick it's colder than too thin due to restricted circulation.
Number two, wet is cold. I have tried Sealskinz and they are nice for a couple hours but they wet out after that. Don't know about the Rocky or other gore-tex socks but I'd have my doubts.
VBL socks work well. Thin liner sock, VBL – tough plastic bags or purpose-made socks – then insulating sock and then another VBL. That way the insulating sock stays dry, protected from water in both directions. If using overboots AND vbl (gotta be way cold for that) then you could skip the outer waterproof layer.
Some like Neoprene socks. Haven't tried them myself.
Snowshoeing brings the issue of the bindings squeezing your feet – bringing up the constriction issue again. A stiffer boot can help here, as the stiffer boot resists compression by the binding straps.

So overall, you need a system (includes everything from the skin out including the binding) that will allow your feet to move enough to maintain good circulation, keep the insulating layer or layers dry, and be comfortable. How much cold you have to deal with will change what works pretty drastically.

[chris smead]

Good info.
Some of the colder temp ranges I see are 50F during the day, 10F at night.
Sounds like either way I need these overboots eh?

40below better than the Neos brand?

[Justin Baker]

Christopher, were you using waterproof or non waterproof moabs?

[chris smead]

Moab mid gtx. Waterproof-ish.
They ended up as frozen snow blocks. Not sure if the water came from melted snow caked on them, coming through leaking seams, or my own sweat. But they were frozen and cold.
I wear gaitors, but it's possible snow still gets in when post holing, which I did a lot of last winter.

[Justin Baker]

I'm just getting serious about snow camping and I plan on using goretex socks over wool socks inside oversized low cut shoes with non waterproof gaiters to keep snow out. I will then have some energy overboots in my pack to put on when needed. I think you also need a solution for snow when it's not really cold out or the snow is not deep.

[chris smead]

Which goretex socks are you using? Any UL options out there?

[Justin Baker]

I use the rocky goretex socks. They are just a thin goretex fabric. They are really nice, good construction. I think they weigh 3 ounces for the pair. They are kind of expensive.

[JP]

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[Nick Gatel]

Here is my system. I use a larger than normal size shoe. Shoe is not waterproof.

[Andy F]

My footwear is very similar to Nick's system, just different brands. I use the Rocky GoreTex socks. I also add a vapor barrier sock over the liner sock if temps are below 20F. I use a thin neoprene sock for that, but have also used turkey-sized oven bags.

At around 10F, this system starts to fail because I have little time for a rest break or to setup camp before my toes begin to get too cold. Part of that though is reduced circulation from the snowshoe binding and needing an even larger shoe and a slightly thicker sock. I just switch over to waterproof "mukluks" at 10F so that I have plenty of safety margin and comfort.

You can do without them, but I'd recommend knee-high waterproof gaiters.

[DGoggins]

Ok, so I'm looking to go on my first overnight winter trip, to test the waters. Lower Idaho mountains (6000'), 1' of snow, overnight low….15 degrees. Planning on bringing both snowshoes and microspikes b/c not sure what to expect. 3 mile hike in. Trying to not spend a ton of $$$ and trying to extend with using my 3 season gear.

For footwear, I currently have the following two shoes ->

First, a pair of Lowa goretex boots….bought from REI before I discovered UL hiking. I can only comfortably wear a midweight wool sock in these…so I guess these are out.

Second, my 3 season trail shoes….Merrell Mix Masters, mesh trailrunner basically. These fit large during 3 season with just my very thin wool socks. So, if I undo the lacing, I can wear a synthetic black dress sock as a liner, then a plastic bag, then the midweight wool sock, and still have some wiggle room.

So…I need to know how thick a pair of rocky goretex socks are. And….they are $60…so for the first time why don't I just wear a second plastic bag?

I'll then wear a pair of knee high gaiters. For UL purposes, shouldn't I just get MLD ones or I can buy heavier/cheaper ones at sierra trading post to just get me by for a while….

So, with those trailrunners/socks, should I be fine at a low of 15, or would it be better for a low of like 25?

[Mitchell Ebbott]

"So…I need to know how thick a pair of rocky goretex socks are. And….they are $60…so for the first time why don't I just wear a second plastic bag?"

Yep. If you're wearing VBLs under your thick socks there's no need to use a breathable outer layer.

Section Hiker recently suggested Reynolds oven bags, I think I'll try those myself soon. Should be more durable than bread bags.

[Justin Baker]

"so for the first time why don't I just wear a second plastic bag? "

Plastic bags are slippery as hell and won't last long without tearing.
Some coated nylon oversocks with a rough texture that won't slip around would work well but I don't know of any that exist, might need to go myog.

[DGoggins]

Justin, you mean like making socks out of something like dyneema X?

[Justin Baker]

Yeah, that would probably work and be very durable.

The thing with plastic bags, in my experience, is they are so slippery that you can almost slide your foot out your shoes when taking a step uphill. Some people but a wool sock over the plastic bag to help with this, but then the wool sock is wet… not going to be good for real cold.

[Rick M]

del

[DGoggins]

That…is a good reality check too for a simple overnighter. Though the point of the overnighter is to learn techniques for longer trips, but perhaps the first time out I might go with something easier.

[Rick M]

del

[Scott Ireland]

I was under the impression that VBLs were most beneficial when the temps dropped below 0F…sounds to me like the system is either too complicated, or too thick and tight.

I wear my standard hiking boots until it hits around 5-10 degrees F, then switch to my winter hiking boots…of course, everyone's feet are different, but the whole baggie/VBL concept seems way too much me. If and when the temps are consistently sub-zero, I have a pair of Koflach Degre mountaineering boots…and my feet have never been cold in those.

I see Steep and Cheap has some decent mountain hiking boots on sale right now…might be worth checking out.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Chris,

I dunno what temps are there in "Hamsterfish" but I'd recommend some Gore-Tex gaiters. They will keep snow from getting in your boots and wetting everything and Also give you at least another 15 F. more warmth.

EXPERIMENT: Use gaiters for a few hours in sub freezing temps then take a break, sit down and remove one gaiter. After 5 to 10 minutes you will feel the big difference in warmth.

BTW, my fav VBL sox are thin diver's sox over thin poly liner sox. I seam seal the neoprene sox to keep all sweat from wetting my boots. These sox are absolutely the warmest All Day sox I've ever used. And they stay in place if you get a "just right" fit that is not loose.

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